Podcast #76 – The Paleo Primer w/ Matt Whitmore & Keris Mardsen – Bulletproof Radio


Dave: Hey everyone it’s Dave Asprey with
the Bulletproof Executive. Today I’m really excited to have Keris and Matt on who are
authors of the Paleo Primer, one of the books to come out through Mark Sisson’s new publishing
company. Mark is one of what I’d call the godfathers of Paleo and he’s started publishing
other books about Paleo. It’s morning for me but it’s actually evening for Keris and
Matt because they’re based in London. Keris and Matt, welcome to the show!? Matt: Hey Dave thanks for having us on.?? Keris: Yeah thanks for having us.?? Dave: I’m stoked because I like the idea that
the Paleo set of dietary principles is reaching across the ponds, kind of in both directions.
So you hear less about it in say in London than you would in the US but it’s catching
on. Your book in the US is called the Paleo Primer and it’s just launching and you talk
about kettle bell training and hormones and things like that but why did you call it Fitter
Food in the UK, and Paleo Primer in the US? What’s the difference between the two sides
of the Atlantic there? Matt: For us I suppose you want it to be a
little bit different for a start but also the reason we didn’t use the word “Paleo”
in the title of our book, which was probably a bad idea from a marketing point of view,
but you hear so many different trains of thought on what Paleo actually is nowadays. You know,
for some people it’s a very strict regime and there’s no dairy, there’s no grains,
no legumes. Some other people from the Paleo world might say that a bit of unpasteurized
dairy is ok. So for us we do believe that dairy is an option for people. We obviously
try and make sure that they can tolerate it first and we have the odd legume here and
there. We thought let’s just not call it Paleo, let’s just call it Fitter Food which
is the name of our company and kind of like not run the risk of upsetting too many people,
you know??? Keris: And also we wanted to sort of reach
outside of the Paleosphere a little bit. So Fitter Food is sort of implicit in that its
food that is going to be good for you, going to help with obviously fitness, and being
nutritious. So it’s actually sort of helping us over here isn’t it? Lots of people are
buying the book and they don’t really know about this and they kind of do once they read
the book. Dave: It’s kind of funny just the other
day I was thinking about going on the vegan watermelon version of the Paleo diet so…You
sort of get this idea that Paleo gets extended in different directions and all and then is
one of the reasons that with the Bulletproof diet I never identified it as a Paleo diet
explicitly. Like it’s definitely got a lot of commonality and I’m a huge fan of people
going into the Paleo direction but there are lots of small tweaks you can make to have
a big difference. And so sounds like you guys are doing service in getting this core set
of principles like food quality matters and you shouldn’t eat only raw vegetables. Like
getting out into the public I think is doing a service to help that thinking get out there
whatever we want to call it. The reason I asked you to be on the show is that you also
cover things like hormone optimization and kettlebells. It’s kind of a well-rounded
book but it’s more for novices and it’s packaged in such a way that it’s a primer. It’s not
for people who are going to argue for two hours as to how much palmitic acid versus
you know some other type of saturated fat is ideal for you. Because there are those
people and I love them and they’re my people but for the rest of us what’s the very short
version of how you introduce Paleo in the Paleo Primer and as like for my grandmother.
Like how would you put it, how you go about that??? Keris: Yeah I think that a lot of it for us
was based on working with individual clients, we’re both personal trainers, and obviously
we coach them through nutrition and training. So we started to notice sort of a common thread
going off and reading the books that we were suggesting, perhaps because they were a little
bit too complex some of them and a bit of a gap for someone to just explain and quite
an entertaining way. I was doing a lot of the writing of the first half of the book
about why it’s important to follow these principles and then Matt would read it, wouldn’t
you, and say I’m bored. I’m a bit bored now. So then we we’re like okay lets put some
pictures, maybe cartoons just to lighten up the argument a little bit and then rather
than telling people but they couldn’t have and shouldn’t have it was actually get excited
about what you can have because these foods are really healthy you just probably don’t
know it. And that was the twist that we wanted to put on it. ?? Matt: It’s pretty much like a non-intimidating
approach to clean eating because we find a lot of the Paleo books or even other kind
of health books can for some, especially kind of the average Joe on the street can actually
be quite intimidating the thought of making such changes and we wanted it to be less so
that people could actually think well actually this doesn’t sound too bad I could probably
do this. I could probably give this a go, you know??? Dave: Alright, so which of you came up with
the idea of how to pimp your salad??? Matt: Well it was kind of both of us really
wasn’t it? ?? Keris: Yeah anything like that. You’re the
title man. He comes up with the titles. I love my salads but to get Matt to eat a salad
it’s got to have something like bacon, avocado…?? Matt: A bit of cheese to lighten it up a bit.?? Dave: Yeah you could always deep fry it. That
usually makes a salad pretty palatable.?? Matt: Deep fried spinach, yeah why not? ?? Dave: So how do you pimp a salad? Like what
are the recommendations you make to make a salad more Paleo??? Keris: Well we just launched how to pimp a
salad 2 in a little e-book as well over here.?? Dave: Oh cool!?? Keris: That one’s got everything on it so
we’ve got like loads of vegetables, bacon, jalapenos, baked walnuts…?? Matt: Roasted nuts are awesome in a salad.
We highly recommend that but like Keris said just some nice crispy bacon goes down well,
doesn’t it??? Keris: Slow cooked, obviously.?? Matt: Yeah low temperature for a long time,
absolutely.?? Keris: Three hours.?? Dave: Alright now you mention a couple things
there where I’ll ask you being some of the Paleo authors now. Roasted nuts, nuts have
omega six oils, when you roast omega six oils they’re less stable in heat. Why do you
roast the nuts versus eat them raw or sprouted??? Keris: No we actually do. We soak them and
sort of bake them on a really, really low heat in the oven. So we more dry them out.
And we’ve actually put that in the book.?? Dave: Oh cool.?? Keris: But we do still get people posting
on the page “I’ve been roasting nuts” and we try and go back and say actually that’s
probably not the best thing to do in terms of getting decent nutrition. Dave: Ok so you’re aligned with that same
general principle because I think there’s a difference between like burning your nuts
and making them nice. And it’s a fine line depending on what fat you’re looking at is
a small temperature range. So where you put your oven and how long there and there is
going to change what happens. So you guys and it and you tell people about in the book
which is kind of cool.?? Matt: Yeah absolutely. Keris: We’re trying to do some videos on
Facebook and getting people to really lower the temperature of all their cooking and using
slow cookers and steaming and putting up the studies to show that’s probably the best way
to get nutrients and do the least damage as well.?? Matt: Yeah absolutely.?? Dave: That’s something has been missing
from the Paleo conversation and especially in the last few years. This year I’m starting
to see a shift at something that I cover in the Better Baby Book. And it kind of sucks
because you know crispy bacon, seared steak with a little bit of charring they taste amazing
I can’t tell you how many Paleo sites have photos of them all over the place. If you’re
eating for longevity and for maximum cognitive performance you’ve got to not do that on regular
basis because it does show up.?? Matt: Yeah of course.?? Keris: I think the problem that we have often
is that clients get home and say they’re starving and they’re in a hurry and that’s why we
try to encourage batch cooking, don’t we? Get your slow cooker on in the morning before
you leave for work and then it’s done you don’t have to flash fry anything when you
get home but that’s normally the feedback we get. I’m really in a rush at night, aren’t
I? And I really want to get my dinner done really quickly.?? Dave: What’s your take on microwaves??? Matt: We don’t own one for a start that
our clients use them as little as humanly possible. Let’s face it, there are some foods
that just taste better hot, but we do try and prompt our clients to make dishes that
they are happy to eat cold when they go to work or when they are out and about and just
want a snack.?? Dave: Yeah, there’s this really interesting
innovation. It’s called a thermos. And I use it for my kids like you wanted something hot,
here, it was hot in the morning and will be hot at lunch. Here you go. And so I do that
as well with some of my clients. Like it’s not that hard to make something hot and stay
home if that’s what you wanted versus nuking something out of the company fridge and it’s
not something that’s a good idea so I’m happy that you guys are down with that. Some Paleo
people are fine with microwaving and they think it’s alarmist and who knows maybe it
is but my own research tells me not.?? Matt: Yeah we’re totally with you on that
one. I mean we haven’t had a microwave for about three or four years.?? Keris: What we sort of do is weigh pros and
cons and say yeah ok it might help to make things more sustainable but ultimately you’re
sort of nuking all the nutrients out of the food. Most people cook in plastic as well
which is pretty lethal. So just explaining what’s going on there has helped clients.?? Dave: Yeah there so many changes people can
make if they’re sort of the average person at home there just not— there making thousands
of mistakes each one widdling away at performance. There are some differences though. Like major
differences between Europe and the US. What about grass fed meat? Over here we think it’s
easier to get grass fed meat in Europe and certainly easier than it is in Asia where
you have to import it from Australia mostly. So how much easier is it for you to get that
in England? Matt: It’s much easier than it used to be
and you’d be quite hard pushed to find a lot of our supermarkets. [British supermarket
store] do a lot of grass fed now, don’t they??? Keris: Yeah the general thinking is that most
UK meat is grass fed however what they’re doing now is supplementing it with cereal
so it’s sort of 80% grass fed and then 20% cereal. We were actually out walking in the
countryside the other day and we are walking through fields full of cows eating the grass
and we thought, you know, this is marvelous and then we sort of stumbled across in the
corner of a field and there’s a massive trough full of cereal. And no one is declaring
that so they can still labeling grass fed because it is 80% but they’re not labeling,
other than supermarkets will say sort of part cereal part grass fed. So it’s actually
harder than a lot of people are realizing now but again there is this movement towards
as Matt said some supermarkets are starting to declare pasture fed chicken, 100%, you
know so there is a movement and a demand for here. But…?? Matt: It’s quite easy to get online. There’s
quite a few online companies now sourcing grass fed meat which is you know you pay a
little bit extra for it but you know if you’re like us we don’t mind paying a bit extra
for good quality. And people are slowly coming around to it aren’t they? We used to eat
grain fed steak like many years ago but when you compare the difference in taste and texture
between the two as well not only is it better for you it takes a hell of a lot better to
and my mom, she’s to be terrible, and even when we kind of converted her to Paleo living
she was still buying really cheap cuts of meat and chicken and whatnot and she didn’t
believe in paying a lot of money for it but when we cooked her dinner one night with a
pasture fed chicken she was like this chick is amazing where is it from? And we told her
and that was it she was immediately converted. Dave: There’s something, my wife is from
Sweden and she spent time living in France and we have family in England. In fact my
family is English historically if you couldn’t guess from the name Asprey, right? So when
I look at sort of the attitude towards food I feel like World War II and the shortages
there are still actively affecting society where people were, they starve when they were
kids during World War II just for a couple of years but it put this sort of poverty thinking
around food where oh my God there might not be enough so I have to economize and I start
pushing for quantity instead of quality yet when you take someone who’s used to eating
low-quality meat or low-quality processed foods and you give the chicken like you did
for your mother, all of a sudden concede lights go on they feel better. They really notice
it. And showing people that even if you take them over to your house just once to do that
they can make a difference in changing demand for quality food and if we get to the point
where people won’t buy the crap meat at the store and it sits there and spoils because
no one wants to eat it because they look at it and say that’s not food, that’s when the
producers are going to have to remove the cereal bin from the back of the pastureland
and just say you know people won’t buy cows that eat crap. So I guess I have to feed my
cows the right stuff. That’s why I like having you on the show, that’s why l like your book,
that’s what I do to because we’ve got to change the attitude in order to change the supply
which is going to transform the ecology of the planet as well as our own bodies.?? Matt: That’s the thing. I mean one of the
biggest issues we have is trying to get someone into the frame of mind to quite happily spend
50 quid a week on alcohol yet when you turn around and tell them you want to spend an
extra 3 quid on a grass fed steak all the sudden is completely out of the question.
We want them to kind of make that association like why are you willing to throw your money
down the drain on alcohol and you’re not willing to spare a little bit of extra dough on some
good quality food, you know? It’s not really a huge sacrifice to make most of the time.?? Dave: It’s not. There’s that whole notion
of you can spend it now or you can give it to your doctor later.?? Matt: Exactly.?? Dave: And, you know, is that pack of blueberries
or that stick of grass fed butter that costs 20% more than the crap butter…is it really
that much more? When you look at the course of your life and you look at the effects on
your health and well-being and on your pocketbook when you get chronic degenerative diseases
I think it’s cheaper to eat the good food now. Matt: We actually done a price comparison
because on our Food page on Facebook we’re always talking about we’ve got a really good
relationship with our butchers, you know they’re a really good bunch of guys. They know exactly
where their food is coming from. They know the farms personally and that’s the kind of
butcher you want. They tell us everything we need to know and can answer every question
we fire at them. I actually got a price comparison because we’re always talking about how butchers—
everyone was like, you know, it’s far too expensive. Not everyone has got the money
to just buy from the butchers. So I’ve actually done a price comparison of the “top end”
so to speak steak, sirloin steak that a supermarket was offering and their top and chicken breasts
as well. In terms of the price, the sirloin steak for the exact same amount of weight
was 17 pence more expensive from the butchers and it was a grass fed steak. The chicken
was about 60 pence more expensive for the two breasts however the two breasts from the
butchers they actually weighed more because they actually have the bone in and the skin
on. The other breasts were completely skinless with no bones and they weren’t pasture fed
either and there was a 60 pence difference. So a lot of the time I think people just assume
that a butchers is more expensive. They don’t actually bother doing their homework and checking
the prices out and I think they’d actually be quite surprised. That’s the case in the
UK anyway. Dave: So is there still like a local butcher
culture there where you can go or is this just because you have a specialty shop in
London or do most neighborhoods…?? Matt: It’s pretty common here. Keris: They’ve actually really benefited
recently. I don’t know if you guys saw the meat scandal over in the US where it was discovered
that in some ready meals over in the UK supermarkets that were like spaghetti Bolognese or lasagna,
they were analyzed and found to have horse meat in them which obviously is actually probably
more healthier than some of the meat that should’ve been in there. But yeah that actually
put quite a few people off from using supermarkets and actually went back to butchers, which
is a really good move and our butchers said he’s sort of seen a really big increase since
that scandal. People just stopped trusting the supermarkets which is probably a good
thing.?? Dave: We can hope that continues. I’ve seen
some of the same things in the US. If you go to San Francisco or Seattle or New York,
any of the big cities, you can find high-end specialty butchers who have grass fed meat
but it’s not that common. Most neighborhoods don’t have it. And if you go to the average
butcher shop where they still have a butcher shop versus supermarket and you say grass
fed their kind of like well I don’t know. And its almost is a different world. Some
actually more hopeful for England then the US this year that I’d be able to go get a
grass fed steak but I mean you guys live there I only visit. But there is one thing I noticed
when I visited that we have to talk about. What’s up with milk in tea? Milk? Tea? Ugh.
It’s not coffee! What’s wrong with this! Is this like a revolutionary war sort of American
Boston tea party thing? Like what’s up with all that? Keris: Honestly like I’m from Northern England
and basically as soon as you stop breast-feeding you’re given strong tea with milk. That’s
what you’re brought up on. And actually when I work with clients anyone that drinks tea
with milk it’s like a battle to get that changed. Matt: It’s like a ritual isn’t it? Keris: I have to keep coming up with various
different try this alternative or this or this. And we’re getting people on white leaf
tea and they tend to find that’s not too bad, it’s almost like tea with milk but yes a national
obsession.?? Dave: I have the same problem with my clients
from London. It’s like I have to have milk in my tea and there is a good reason for it,
it turns out. Black tea is relatively high in oxalic acid and it binds to calcium. So
if you pour some milk in your tea you’re actually binding some of the toxins or you could just
not drink the oxalic acid and switch to the beverage of powerful people. Which would be
vodka right? No. It would of course be coffee at least in my own biochemical analysis of
the world but you could also say that I have a bias view since I started manufacturing
my coffee. I do find though that the milk and tea can be a big problem, and I’m guessing
you do to with your clients??? Keris: Yeah absolutely. It’s like step changes
with them and we would sometimes say try milk alternatives first then maybe just try some
white tea and then we try to switch them on to coffee.?? Dave: Do you really??? Keris: Yeah.?? Matt: Well the thing is even though there’s
a big tea drinking culture here there’s also a big coffee drinking culture as well as isn’t
it??? Keris: London is very coffee centric but outside
of London in like northern England there is much more tea. Very British.?? Matt: I’m a born and bred Southeast Londoner
I mean I’ve always lived in southeast London and I’d always worked local to where I lived.
I never actually worked in the city or in the central part of London and I’d never actually
drank coffee until about the age of 20. I had always just had tea and milk. And it wasn’t
until I actually started working in town and I started working really, really early I suppose
the natural way of life in London is let’s meet for coffee. Let’s grab a coffee. And
I was a bit like coffee? What is this stuff? As soon as I had my first coffee that was
it I was hooked and now I hardly ever drink tea.?? Dave: it’s one of those things where I enjoy
tea but yeah I tend to focus on coffee. Same thing, I think I was maybe 19. The only time
I ever got an A on calculus in college was the semester I discovered espresso and they
made me take an early morning class so I would have three espressos and go in to class and
I had so much focus. I had good grades. Keris: How many do you have a day now? Dave: I have a cup of coffee. This is kind
of a left over one and I’m guessing this is 14 ounces. I have that in the morning and
I’m good to go. Occasionally I’ll have another two thirds of this at lunch but most the time
just one. As long as it’s my beans because when I drink “normal” coffee I tend to
go up, and then I crash, and so I actually don’t really drink other coffee. Unless maybe
it’s some high end specialty one and even then I find that I just want a lot more of
it.?? Matt: What’s the time there now??? Dave: Here it is 11:30 in the morning. So
I had this at 8 AM and it’s just sitting there empty and I will totally be good to go. This
had brain octane and grass fed butter and this morning I had collagen in it because
I have sore muscles because I worked out for the first time in two weeks. Now I have another
question. Something else I like comparing people how different people do nutrition.
I want to ask you specifically about a couple recipes. Beer. So if any country on the planet
likes beer, I think it’s like a war between Australia and England as to who likes beer
more. And since it’s such a part of the national beverage obsession over there what does gluten-free
do when you try and introduce it in England. What do Londoners do about that? Are they
drinking hard cider? Are they doing wheat free beer? What is happening there??? Matt: Well we normally initially just get
clients to avoid it altogether at first. But there are some actually decent gluten-free
beers here. There’s one, I can’t remember the name of it, was rediscovered not that
long ago which is made from rice. And it’s actually pretty damn nice. I was quite impressed.
So we might recommend that to people and if they are kind of entertaining at home and
once you have a couple of drinks. But we often try to push people toward spirits, don’t we??? Keris: Yeah we just sort of say no more than
two servings really. You’re just doing yourself more harm than good and it’s just full of
bad decisions after that anyways. Isn’t it? That’s the thing with most clients. Yeah the
kebab on the way home and then the big sort of fry up the next morning with fried bread
to try and get over the hangover. So we sort of educate them and say why if you want biodynamic
maybe, and organic sort of. But even though I’m sure and the amounts they are going to
want to drink is not really going to have to beneficial effects so it’s just for us
getting people to look at the amounts. We tell people if you really are wanting optimal
health it’s avoidance. And actually people are really starting to listen because a lot
of it affects their guts nowadays. They put a lot of stuff and alcohol that should really
be in there anyways.?? Dave: We’ve changed the yeast on this planet
and the species have changed and it’s funny European ones are better. In Europe you actually
have less of the genetically modified things. In the US for 40-50 years even before we did
genetic engineering we were involving these hyper aggressive yeasts that would ferment
faster so that we could make more bread in less amount of time. But I’m not sure you
really want those hyper aggressive yeast in your gut and there are lots of people with
gluten intolerance in the US they go to Europe and they might go well okay I’m going to have
a croissant on in France or whatever. They eat it and they don’t get the reaction they
would get in the US. That is driven by yeast. And that’s one of the reasons that I tell
people look I don’t care if it’s a gluten-free beer, beer is still way on the wrong end of
the spectrum. So you’re able to overcome that even in London, that’s pretty cool. Matt: Well if we can actually get someone
to steer clear of beer for a decent amount of time, or any alcohol, what we find is that
they have such a bad response when they do have some it actually makes them think maybe
that wasn’t such a good idea. You know? And that for us sometimes we’re quite glad to
go off the rounds because they feel so bad that it makes them think twice next time around,
you know??? Keris: And they also see like their skin,
you know their skin looks better without alcohol, they get more out of their weekends. They’re
just better off they don’t get bloating so it’s just a good all arounder isn’t it??? Matt: Absolutely.?? Keris: But it’s quite a hard battle, it is
one of our hardest battles initially.?? Dave: Yeah, one of my good friends is a venture
capitalist in the Silicon Valley and he did one of those alcohol things for six weeks.
He just loves his red wine and just confessed yes I feel so much better when I don’t drink.
I have more energy all week long, it’s so much better. He’s kind of loathing the idea
of drinking again but he also wants to so you see that. But when they drink is going
to knock them over, you can count on it. Well let’s talk about some recipes that most of
us Americans don’t know anything about. Alright, a Scotch egg sounds to me like an egg and
you pour scotch on it but maybe it’s like a hangover cure? I know that’s not what it
is but what is a scotch egg and how the heck would you make it Paleo??? Matt: It’s so funny because I knew you’re
going to say Scotch egg. Every podcast we’ve done they said what the hell is the scotch
egg? Simply it’s a soft boiled egg coated in traditionally— I’ll tell you how it’s
traditionally made so this will be the non-Paleo way if you like. So it’s an egg coated in
sausage meat and which is then coated in bread crumbs and deep-fried. So the bread crumbs
go crispy.?? Dave: Is there any scotch food that’s not
deep-fried??? Keris: No.?? Matt: I don’t think there is… So we just
put a— and scotch eggs are a bit of a family favorite of mine. My nan used to make them
for us and my mom used to make them and I’ve always loved them. So we just put a healthy
twist on it. Obviously the egg remains. Obviously it’s from a pasture fed chicken, it’s free
range organic. We get sausages from our butchers which are gluten-free. It’s just almost 100%
pork meat and herbs, well we might use pork minced but the sausage meat is just a little
bit better. And we just coat that around the egg and then we roll the meat in some beated
egg and then just roll it and some ground almonds and a bit of seasoning and then we
bake them in the oven for about 25 to 30 minutes and they are actually delicious.?? Dave: That sounds awesome, actually. So that’s
how to make it the right way. Yeah I had a very hard time, I spent some time in the Scottish
Highlands hiking and all. Man, you can take a salad and it will be deep-fried when you
get out of some of the big cities like Edinburgh. I couldn’t believe it. There’s nothing to
eat here, not even butter. What is a bubble and squeak??? Keris: Well that’s basically a traditional
sort of Monday morning thing. So basically all your leftover veggies from your Sunday
roast and you put it down with some butter and basically just fry it up. And that’s potatoes,
parsnips, cabbage, everything.?? Matt: Literally any vegetable you have cooked
on your Sunday roast just goes into bubble and squeak. It just gets mashed together and
then fried basically.?? Keris: Yeah and that’s from the war I think
if I remember my nan making that for me so that’s ancient.?? Dave: So really it’s basically lots of—
in your case, in your book you would recommend healthy fats like butter and all. And a lot
of vegetables just sort of reheated in butter it sounds like.?? Matt: Yeah, pretty much. Dave: Pretty good marketing for leftovers.
I mean my kids would be bubble and squeak and they probably wouldn’t touch left over
vegetables but alright. And then, ok, liver is something that in your that most people
eat it on purpose. My wife like loves liver. She would have a liver facial if possible.
I just never have taught myself to like liver. I don’t know how to make it taste good. So
in your book with the recipes you do how do you torture the liver to get rid of that nasty
taste that it has??? Matt: Well to be fair we had a similar battle
here, mate, with our clients. Most people are quite reluctant to eat liver. One of the
recipes in the book is the liver dipped in eggs, just because egg yolks takes pretty
awesome and it can disguise it somewhat. We’ve tried disguising liver in a burger before
hadn’t we? So mincing liver up with lamb or beef and getting some herbs and spices in
it to disguise it is a good way. Yeah, pate is fantastic. There is that recipe in the
book as well isn’t there??? Keris: Just blending it with butter and herbs
and garlic and if you’re not a fan of the taste just more butter, herbs, and garlic.?? Dave: I took some liver, this was young beef
liver from grass fed cows obviously, and I couldn’t eat it. I just couldn’t make it go
down. So I put it in the blender and I had some raw egg yolks and some herbs and spices
and salt and vinegar and whatever else I could and then I could at least chug it, like I
wouldn’t have to chew it. Like you would treat a pint, right? It still didn’t work. I got
half of it down and I’m holding the blender up to my face and there’s like liver running
down my face and I’m like just not worth it. I’m not going to do this. So I just freeze
little chunks of raw liver and I’ll swallow them like pills just with a glass of water
so I don’t have to taste it because it’s just not something… But in your case your hiding
as best you can. Cool, lots of spices, alright. There’s no magic? Like soak it in, you know,
unicorn juice or something like that??? Matt: No there’s no miracle I’m afraid,
mate. I mean one thing that we find is that calf liver is better because it’s much more
tender whereas Lamb liver can be a bit tougher. But we try and slow cook everything that we
find with liver just cook it on a really low heat just to keep it nice and tender because
it’s a lean, you know if you cook it on a high heat it just goes tough as old boots.
And what we’ll do is look to slice it up and pan fried on a low heat with some coconut
oil, we get some paprika in there, some cayenne chile, salt and pepper. We sometimes have
it in like a similar to what you would have for fajitas. Like we’d use an iceberg lettuce
as like a wrap and put the liver in there and maybe top it with a homemade salsa and
eat it that way which is quite nice.?? Dave: Well there you go. You get enough jalapenos
and cayenne I guess you couldn’t taste the liver. Alright so good strategy, I like it.
We’re going to get into a few details in the interview here just because a lot of the people
who are hearing this podcast is their first one are probably like why would you even eat
liver in the first place? Well it’s because liver has all sorts of vitamins and things
you want in it. But I kind of like it because you guys went a little further than most people.
You wrote about peekapoo and how you use beet root for that. So what is peekapoo and why
would someone want to do that??? Keris: One thing we’re really big on with
clients is just trying to get the message to the general public is like supporting your
gut and try and identify if things might be going a bit wrong. So on our website we’ve
listed some little tests you can do. Peekapoo is where you eat either beetroot or sweet
corn and you basically just see what comes out the other end. So that’s just a bit of
a transit time test.?? Dave. Oh, ok so it’s a bowel transit time
test. I do the same thing with my clients. We use the Upgraded Coconut Charcoal, same
thing. It’s dark black, you know when it comes out. What do you learn from bowel transit
time though??? Keris: Well almost within minutes of that
blog going up I got an email saying it was seven days or something. Like someone had
done it. What we’re trying to do is just make people aware of the fact that bowel movements
should happen every single day. To be healthy you want to— we call it you want to take
the trash out every day and some people are struggling with things like constipation and
just not understanding the implications of it. You know, toxins and things being recycled
back into the body. So I mean we’re doing some things online with some groups at the
moment and we’re really sort of big at trying to get them to look at digestion and are they
eating properly? Do they need a bit of digestive support? Are the bowels functioning? Is transit
time optimal? That sort of thing. For most people it’s not and once you get that fixed
you see massive changes don’t you? Just in terms of everything, their training, their
health overall, skin, energy, just everything isn’t it??? Matt: Yeah we kind of like try and get people
to understand that our focus is always the gut first. We always want to focus on digestion.
Regardless of anybody’s goal we want to make sure that’s in check and things that we try
and stress to people is that your body actually throws you a hell of a lot of signs on a day-to-day
basis that your digestion isn’t optimal. Yet I think what the problem is now is people
just perceive them as normal. You know, farting a lot after a meal, everybody does it. You
know, getting the runs every other day, oh that’s normal. And it’s trying to actually
change people’s mindset that these are signs that your body is giving you to say hey, stop
for a moment something is up here and you need to sort it out. But people just think
it just happens to everybody. It’s the norm.?? Dave: It’s definitely not the norm. It’s
kind of funny the number of people who rely on acid blockers and Pepto-Bismol and just
all these over-the-counter drugs that are masking symptoms but not fixing the basic
problem. So getting people to pay attention and just even feel the state of normal—
I can tell you, I didn’t really know what the state of normal was. My gut had never
worked since I was a little kid. So you grow up thinking it’s normal to be able to clear
room and just be glad nobody blames you. Things like that and once you get just a week or
two where things are like while that’s the kind of normal is actually kind of cool, then
you realize there’s something making that change. But the link there seems to be broken
and a lot of people where we just aren’t connected to our actions impact us hours and days later.
So it’s good that you guys are writing about that. I appreciate that.?? Dave: There’s a question that I ask everyone
who’s ever been on the show, except that one time when I forgot, and it’s one that I like
to close the show with. So what are the top three things that you’d recommend, not just
from your book but just from everything you do with your clients, everything you do in
your own life. The top three things you recommend for making people more Bulletproof or helping
them perform better in all parts of life, not just food or anything else. Each of you
just go ahead and tell me the top three.?? Matt: Well one thing we really stress to people
is to try and get some good quality sleep.?? Keris: Oh that was going to be mine.?? Matt: Because we always stress that, you know,
even if you’re eating really, really well if you’re not getting enough sleep it can
cause you some major problems. So I always say regardless of what your goal is just try
to get yourself to bed early and get some solid night’s sleep if you can. Number two,
we get people to just try and get outside and I’d say as much as you possibly can.
Get outside, see the world, go for a walk, play with your kids, walk the dog, whatever
it may be. Go for a little run. Just get as much exposure to sunlight as you can. And
number three had actually just say just try not to think about it too much. You know,
just being healthy is actually pretty straightforward. Just eat clean most of the time, move as much
as you can, get lots of sleep and generally people get really good results from just doing
those three things without overcomplicating things. That would be me anyways.?? Keris: Mine would probably be eat a nutrient
dense diet. So always look, your plate should always be packed with good stuff. Reduce stress
as much as possible, especially living in London, God.?? Matt: Or any city even.?? Keris: Yeah or any city. And drink clean water.
And no one ever does the water thing, do they? That’s the last thing that people ever seem
to get around to doing.?? Matt: It’s not like people are drinking water
out of the river though is it??? Keris: No but London tapwater is pretty grim,
so we do try to encourage people to get a decent water filter in their house. It’s a
small investment when you actually consider. You can pay for monthly, whatever.?? Dave: Yeah that last one no one has ever said.
You know, get a water filter. But yeah, it’s pretty great advice from my perspective especially
if you look at how old the plumbing in London is, that alone is enough to say you want to
be filtering in your house. So I like that one. That’s a new one. Would you guys please
tell our listeners where they can learn more about you. The title of your book if you can
repeat it, tell them where they can get it, and your URL for your blog.?? Matt: Well obviously the US version of the
book is called the Paleo Primer, which can be purchased on Amazon or Barnes & Nobles,
I believe. You may be able to purchase it directly from Mark’s website as well.?For
more info about us your best bet is to check out our Facebook page. So it’s just Fitter
Food on Facebook. It’s the one that’s got about 12,000 likes now or something.?? Keris: We say that because there are about
three Fitter Foods now.?? Matt: Yeah, some other people have copied
our name. But they haven’t got as many likes as us so that’s fine then. Or by all means
check out our website. Our website is actually www.FitterLondon.co.uk. Fitter London is the
training side of our business, but all the Fitter Food stuff and all our recipes and
nutrition blogs are all on that page. So definitely check that out if people are looking for other
inspiration that outside of the book. Because all the recipes on our page and on our website
are not in the book. We didn’t want to just repeat ourselves, so all the recipes on our
page are completely different to what’s in our book.?? Dave: That’s really cool. Getting good recipes,
especially things like scotch eggs, those are not in any Paleo books I’ve ever seen
and it’s a great way to prepare an egg. It’s really nice to wrap it in meat like that.
That’s awesome.?? Matt: It’s a meal in itself, you know, like
it’s actually…?? Keris: Yeah, the size that you make them!
It’s like a football or something.?? Matt: It’s one of our most popular dishes.
Like people are forever tweeting us look at my scotch eggs you know. We actually ran a
competition about who could create the best Scotch egg and the combination of flavors
that were coming in were pretty fantastic. What did we go for an end? It was something
like lamb and mozzarella and something else is finished but it tasted amazing. We tried
it and thought yeah, that’s the one, but it’s a very versatile dish I’d say, wouldn’t you??? Dave: Awesome! Thank you so much for being
on the show, for teaching us about scotch eggs and all the other cool stuff you’re
writing about. We’ll have links to your Facebook page and your website and all that
in the show notes here on the Bulletproof Executive. ??If you’ve enjoyed the show
everyone please do me the favor of clicking like on iTunes or clicking like on Facebook
for the Bulletproof Executive site as well and join a quarter million other people who
are hearing one of the Bulletproof Podcasts this week. Resources Fitter Food on Facebook www.FitterLondon.co.uk Paleo Primer on Amazon.com Bulletproof Upgraded Coconut Charcoal Bulletproof Toolbox
Podcast #76, Keris Marsden and Matt Whitmore 23 © The Bulletproof Executive 2013

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Reader Comments

  1. sgtheadhole

    ive had 3 day old lambs liver, cook it brown on either side then leave it in a pan with the lid on, cook it low heat until it turns grey to the core of the meat, visible blood is ok but it must be grey (no red) in the most centre part. that i find is the best way to cook it for taste

  2. Daffy B

    Lambs liver on its own just isn't interesting.

    Brown onions first, then add bacon (Waitrose in the UK do it cured in maple syrup), then add the liver last of all. 

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