Joe Rogan experience number 1175 Chris Kresser and dr. Walcott I know a lot of you guys were hoping this was going to be like a carnivore versus a vegan thing but unfortunately it’s quite the opposite both of these guys come from like a predominantly plant-based diet Chris crecer advocating for more some animal foods nutrient dense animal foods in the diet but they kind of both agreed that the standard American diet is bad and that different people have different nutritional requirements which is completely incorrect you know everyone needs a base fat soluble vitamin content in the diet and you know after looking at this podcast from the outside I feel like it was almost set up to just look like both diets for okay to follow I feel like Chris Kresser held back on a lot of information and even when he was holding him back on this information dr. dwelle Khan contradicted himself in many many ways and said some very outlandish things so let’s go over that briefly initially they kind of disagreed upon what studies would be good you know Joel Khan was for epidemiological studies and Chris crusher was against them favor and randomized controlled trials but this whole podcast was this just two and a half hours back and forth on Jamal Khan clinging to old science and USDA guidelines and Health Organization’s saying that oh you’re conspiracy theorists if you think these people have been wrong for 60 years Chris crasher was presenting new science new studies randomized control trials using logic saying that you know science is progressing you know we used to think the world is flat and I know some of you guys still do but you know that’s besides the point you know science does change and progress and the initial science that these USDA guidelines are based off of is completely crooked I mean the topics they argued on were mainly the saturated fat and cholesterol and they did touch on heme iron they did touch on carcinogens briefly they touched on heterocyclic amines briefly but they didn’t really go in depth they brought up TMAO which we will touch on and then he brought up Blue Zones a lot but the cancer stuff guys the heterocyclic amines the saturated fat and cholesterol I’m gonna linked you guys some videos down below in the description because I have two excellent videos explaining the carcinogens in meat from colorectal cancer to heterocyclic amines I also have an excellent video explaining saturated fat cholesterol and the history of how the USDA guidelines came to be I can’t I don’t want to explain that in this video it will take too long so definitely check those out I just want to critique the things that came up in this video that were contradictory you know Joel can cling to those USDA guidelines and then Chris crusher brings up well they have coca-cola and Nestle funding those you know those meetings and stuff and you literally see that stuff advertised and then draw Cohn was like oh yeah that’s crooked that’s bad but how can well con say that’s crooked that’s bad but he’s pushing the USDA guidelines because they agree with his idea that cholesterol and saturated fat should be limited in the diet and not only that the USDA guidelines has slowly been backing off cholesterol they did that in 2015 quietly and they you know said hey saturated fat limited to less than 35% you know they just they’re trying to save face they don’t want to lose credibility and Joel Cohn is also bringing up these Blue Zones constantly the centenarians you’re talking about uh cite aliens you’re talking about Sardinians really I’m not from Sardinia I’m from Naples but what I will say is just like Sardinians we have a love for our pork our sheep milk and very fatty high-quality animal foods little did well Cano was he was literally saying look at these centenarians look at the Sardinians he was literally saying look at these high fat intake people and how they live so long but he doesn’t know he doesn’t know that that’s that was the the one glaring thing in this whole podcast I was like dude don’t you know Sardinians love pork and he keeps bringing up Blue Zones what about countries France and Korea the French paradox they have the lowest rates of heart disease in the world and that’s because of the vitamin k2 content of the foods they eat the French consume lots of cheeses and high-quality charcuterie which are very high in vitamin k2 the Koreans consume large amounts of poor and fermented vegetables natto that I’m not sure if they consume not so but fermented vegetables that have high amounts of k2 and these are required for calcium metabolism the constant is normally the this vitamin k2 would need to be obtained from animal foods so although you know those countries consume high amounts of fat and fish and they have low rates of heart disease I’m deducing it to the higher k2 intake because that seems to be the pot of the main possibility I just think that you know you’re bringing up Blue Zones and stuff when I can bring up entire countries of low heart disease this is it blows it out of the water you know they started talking about seventh-day adventists and bringing up things like healthy user bias you know if people eat a hotdog they’re gonna have it with a bun if people you know are prone to eating healthy they’re prone to exercising and not smoking and not drinking yeah this pretty much kind of what they went over the whole podcast later in the podcast he attempted to bring up the igf-1 thing and the problem with igf-1 is that it’s only related to breast cancer studies with consumption I believe of conventional dairy which is a completely ridiculous like statement to make it’s a blanket statement made for everything then you started bringing up TMAO and the ridiculous thing about TMAO is vegans will always say TMAO from red meat and eggs is so bad for you but it’s multiple times higher in fish like literally 100 times higher in fish Chris crusher brought this up and TMAO consumption from fish is not shown to have any negative effects so it’s a red herring TMAO is like something that vegans try to isolate is a blanket statement and apply to everything outside of the context of the nutrient profile of the whole food and then what really bothered me was dual khan had the balls to say fish causes diabetes because fish has saturated fat and animal protein which is complete wack oh I mean then he started saying PCBs mercury and but he was mentioning things related to pollution not necessarily fish in itself it doesn’t really make any sense and then when joe rogan asked chris crecer okay what vitamins are in animal foods versus plants and this didn’t make sense to me this is what I thought is this a whole set up is this whole podcast just set up you know because Chris crusher says b12 zinc iron coaling taurine and creatine are in animal foods and then plant foods have more carotenoids polyphenols antioxidants but animal foods have every vitamin every element every mineral in large amounts and vitamin C and vitamin E being the antioxidant vitamins certain animal foods have higher amounts of antioxidants than any vegetable food so I was like wait the Chris Kresser knows this I know he knows this stuff so why is he not bringing it up it doesn’t make any sense they kind of understated the importance of animal foods here and then they started talking about how they pretty much surmised that a vegan diet with supplementing certain things as healthier than standard American diet but they were literally saying vegetarians are lower in vitamins than omnivores but those are omnivores on a standard American diet we’re already unhealthy so what kind of measurement is that they started talking about the carnivore diet around 3 hours and 20 minutes in they brought up Shawn Baker’s lab work which is completely ridiculous because that guy dead lifted you know more than the natural record ten years ago he deadlift like 800 pounds which is close to the raw world record for his weight class you’re using this guy’s a metric that he’s been on a diet for a year and a half and does all this crazy stuff not a good metric for the carnivore diet dude then drill con mentions the importance of vitamin C which is you know that they just don’t want Rove me crazy was they don’t know that vitamin C is an animal foods in large amounts they don’t know that and he brought up vitamin A and vitamin C and and Chris crush was like oh I don’t know if Kenny has vitamin C are you guys serious how did these super intelligent people not know what vitamins are in these organs he’s driving me crazy they started bringing up the lack of omega-3s and fiber and meat sticking in the colon in the diet this is just I was literally laughing and what these guys were saying a whole meat diet is low in omega-3 yeah if you eat grain fed ribeye all day and then Chris Chrysler started talking about the rating of nutrient density of foods how organ meats were at the top then shellfish and fatty fish and how could you just you kind of like you were kind of brushing off the nutrient density of animal foods and then you go to say that they’re the most nutrient dense foods I just feel like this whole podcast was staged to make it so one diet doesn’t look glaringly better than the other that’s how I feel he did mention at 3 hours 24 minutes and 30 seconds there’s a Joe Rogan said oh there’s a guy I follow on YouTube and he advocates organ meats I’m sorry I forgot his name that was me she forgot my name it come on that was close this close what he can do man but that was a summary for you guys I think I gonna try to condense this down even further but just the topics they talked about on this podcast it was a waste of three hours and 45 minutes man I should have gone to bed 3 hours ago I gotta get up for work in like six hours I’m gonna be so tired but if you guys would like to support me please just share the channel we could do a makeup check for you clowns I got a rag here I’m gonna wipe my face oh man look at all that makeup so if you guys would like to reach out to me for consultations in regards to the carnival diet fitness health anything related water consumption shoot me an email Frank a to Fano at outside of that if you guys would like to see any particular videos in the future please let me know

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Reader Comments

  1. Amanda Ars the Alchemist

    I caught the highlights to that Joe Rogan episode and it kind of pissed me off. It definitely looked set up to discredit the benefits of the carnivore diet.

  2. herb stomp

    You're right about it being staged. They never mentioned that the science about fat and cholesterol contradicted millions of years of human history. Joel kept referring to those 50 years of propaganda science like it was ever legit… yeah let's ignore the biggest elephant in the room about plants and grains causing heart disease and diabetes and just focus on a silly argument of whether 50 years of precious plant based anti animals bunk science might be wrong and shatter joel's little ego.

    If this is what it takes to get a PhD i can get that with ease and make these silly clowns look like 1st graders sitting at the adult table.

    These guys should be ashamed of the censorship and perpetuating the lies to the people

  3. Lia Nohr

    Is there a difference between men and woman on this diet? since some woman lose their period and get problem with hormons when going low carb but maybe it would be better to eat a lot of fat

  4. kyle ober

    Mercury is found in practically all saltwater fish naturally pollution or not.
    Ajanous has studied the effect of natural mercury found when eating raw fish and found it to be a natural detoxifier of cauterized mercury from previous consumption of toxic cooked fish.

  5. Timothy Hudson

    Kahn looked liked an old slimy politician trying to push old ideas against real science. He was grasping for straws. The vegans should be quite embarrassed today.

  6. Nikita Ember

    Hey Frank, I see you don't have a cellulose video yet and how the conventional wisdom of needing a lot of fiber in order to sustain a healthy bacteria and have reular bowel movements is wrong. Would you please make one?

  7. Carnivore Life

    The debate between Kahn and Kresser was appropriate for this stage in carnivore education. Society is NOT ready for full blown carnivore, most people are under heavy brainwash. I think Joe did a good job of creating a discussion , it wasn't "set-up" to make Carnivore look bad. The whole fucking world is set-up to make Carnivores look bad. One JRE podcast isn't going to un-brainwash the world, this is going to take a very long time with little steps at a time. This is borderlining in government conspiracy, when you consider how FDA and CDC are all in the pockets of politicians and government and farmers, so people tread very lightly when trying to un-ravel this mess. I believe Joe Rogan is waking up to the truth, and I've said this before, he's afraid to speak his mind for fear of backlash from the media. The media can ruin your life nowadays , and they love ruining the lives of White men in Power. This is the time we are in, and most carnivores I see on here are White Men, which is one reason why people love attacking Carnivore.

    Everyone you have to zoom out and see things from a broader scope in order to understand what's happening here. It's very serious, dangerous, and amazing at the same time, Shaun Baker has received death threats over this and I doubt Joe Rogan wants that so this is why Joe treads very lightly when talking about Carnivore and does his best not to shove it down anyones throat just yet. Religion, Money, Power, Control, Life, these are all things that center around consumption of Meat. It's as essential as the air we breath, and the water we drink, and it's astonishing we have to do all this work at a grass-roots level just to get it back.

  8. QGodofGods RulerOfAll

    You sound angry Kresser didn't advocate a pure carnivore diet. How could he since he had no data to back up the claim. Advocating for a healthy balanced diet including dense nutrient foods sounds perfectly reasonable given what the current studies show. Who knows in the future with people like Shawn Baker, strong evidence may emerge placing the carnivore diet at the top for health. At the moment, it's still experimental.

  9. Benaiah Yang

    Are eating eggs raw more nutritious then cooked? I've been eating 2-6 raw eggs daily but now I've heard cooking them is best because it denatures avidin, which is an anti nutrient in the whites. I've also heard cooking eggs makes them more bioavailible than raw, but I find that hard to believe. It seems so backwards, as raw meat is more bioavailible than cooked meat

  10. Marc Hlavac

    I knew it was you he was talking about! SO CLOSE. We need to get you on there brother. Keep doing the good work and it won't be long. Also, I think the goal of the podcast wasn't just to make sure one guy didn't destroy the other, but to show we can have civil conversations between vegans and meat eaters. He picked the right two for the cause… I gotta say I like Joel Kahn's vibe even though he's ignorant, he seems like a good guy. The very core of this podcast was to get people off of the SAD diet. We have to remember a great deal of Joe's listeners are still sitting there eating cheetos and downing it with a 64 oz mt dew. My journey began eating oreos, fries, drinking twelve pops a day and feeling like shit. The vegan diet was my introduction to health, and it was an improvement. Ultimately it failed miserably over time, went paleo, keto and I ended up here. I think this podcast was a much needed step in the right direction. Gotta figure out how to get you on JRE. Frankie T remember the name!

  11. TALLhappyCOLORS

    they didn´t count on carnivores´ clarity in analysing – thank you for a great job and for facilitating this overview ~
    if they held back with facts that they knew, like you said, then it looks like puppeteering for a certain bought outcome sadly : /
    Much enjoying your very natural and relaxed way of talking lately, good to see you feeling so comfortable, it transmits nicely ~

  12. Stop Being Confused About Health

    Chris and Joe had more rapport, and were on the same wavelength. I've only watched the first hour, but they haven't even discussed inflammation yet. They're talking about cholesterol and saturated fat…please let's stop this nonsense. Saturated fat consumption does raise cholesterol a little bit, but as Chris said, food isn't just saturated fat. Meat contains OLEIC ACID.

    That's interesting I don't know much about culture and diet in Sardinia. Khan is head-deep in reductionist science. Chris had the better holistic perspective and is correct. Chris is a bit timid though and I agree he could have been a bit stronger. It seemed to me like he was satisfied with his truth and didn't need to press on much of the time.

    How does Dr. Khan not know about nutrients in meat? Because he's vegan.

  13. Gustaf Bodén

    ”Is this whole podcast a setup”

    OFC it’s a setup man, it’s called controlled opposition, it’s manipulative technique to control the masses.
    That Kreisler guy is there to steer people in a ‘sort of’ wrong direction, to keep people sick and dying on vegetables, fiber and cooked foods.
    I know that sentence will sound odd to the programmed brain…sure.
    The administration is not going to let the masses hit a homerun and jump the bandwagon on the spring of youth aka raw foods – so to speak.

    Stay sick, dumb and naive. That’s the plan and Joe is and has been a gatekeeper.
    Joes rebuttal “only meat is a problem to me cause I eat game meat”…..jisses Christ he has high iq enough to find other meat no?

    I’d be mighty surprised if he takes you on the show Frank, very surprised. In a good way, don’t get me wrong.
    He even mentioned you, “the guy that eats liver, on instagram, can’t remember his name”.
    Ofc he remembers your name, he follows you on instagram Frank… how many raw liver franks tufanos is there on instagram?! I don’t buy it. He just can’t promote you due to some strings being attached to him, he’s a tool.

    That whole podcast felt very much like a proxy to promote veggies and keep people afraid of going all in on animal products.

  14. Bjørn

    Yo Frankie boy! I immediately thought of you when Joe mentioned the guy he follows that eats organ meat! Too bad he forgot your name. The whole podcast was utter crap, and seemed very staged. I better grab my tin foil hat! Keep up the good work 😘

  15. Roman Navratil

    10:00 Im paranoid… next time please make sure the blanket or whatever stays the WHOLE time FULLY in frame of the camera… (so we know you didnt switch it out of the view of camera)…. yeah we have to be paranoid… there are con man in this world! 🙂

    No but seriously please try to do it next time, its not difficult and will boost your credibility probably a bit more 🙂

  16. tickyul

    Most of the supermarket pork I see in the USA is ruined, they butcher-away almost all
    the fat. Bacon is too salty for me…..but I love side-pork (now about 6 to 8 bucks a pound, WTF?).

  17. Discern Truth

    oh come on. use your great research skills and look into flat earth. heliocentrism is retarded like veganism. im sorry but it just is. i dont care how many people follow it.

  18. Jim Tipton

    The thing that irritates me about Kahn is that he is caught in this cholesterol is bad loop. He hasn't moved past the fact that it isn't the cholesterol. It never has been. It's the damage imposed on the cholesterol via seed oils and a diet that is hyperinsulinemic. LDL just happens to be the fall guy.

  19. S S

    They also said that Scurvy takes years to develop, which is not true. Scurvy takes about 4 weeks to develop…
    I used to read Chris Kresser all the time. Now, he's a dumbass to me for saying meat doesn't have vitamin C.

  20. Stephane

    Frank, is it ok to eat frozen meat ? I know fresh is always better, but where i live, the only way i can get 100 % grass fed meat is from a farm wich sells meat by 10 to 20 ponds box . So i have to freeze it … Butcheries are very bad there and i don't trust them. What are your thoughts ?

  21. Käyttäjä nro 2

    Hey Frank! It would be very interesting us to see, what happens if you go vegan for a month and update how your diet is going and how do you feel compared when you were carnivore. Just a month, or two weeks !!:)

  22. Vegan Phobic

    When I was vegan I fell for the
    “Well some meat eaters have to take b12 too.” Argument
    To justify why my diet lacked b12

    It’s like…. 1 diet is inevitably deficient in the nutrients (vegan)
    Comparing it to people who are not absorbing the nutrients in their diet for who knows why.

    Why purposefully aim to be nutrient deficient and justify it because you can take medicine.

    Supplements pills and medicine are not for healthy people.
    but vegans normalize being sick and a malnourished diet plan.and they’ll talk about well water has b12 and fortified food

    I have well water and
    Fortified food is just medicine and supplements in food and don’t absorb
    It just looks good on the back of the box.

  23. ardenado qosja

    man what you think about blood types and even about positive or negative, maybe some blood types are more easy on digesting some animals than others…im an AB positive and I fell good on chicken and fish rather than beef even if I like it more…

  24. Amanda Carlson

    exactly, I just said on Shawn Baker's response video : I mean Dr. Kresser was great but still, he's very pro plants and thinks huge amounts of vegetation is beneficial, similar to Dr Berg. while they both are doing great things for the low carb high fat community, having physicians like Dr Bret Sher (also a cardiologist) or Dr Anthony Gustin, would have been better to have on, as they both know the amazing benefits of zero carb and how pointless the plants really are 😉


  25. Gianni Giovanni

    Sardinians love pork but in the early life of centenerians they ate mostly vegetarian and still after, the diet of the healthiest were mostly based on vegetarian food. And pork is eaten generally with raw vegetables expecially celery and raddish as a side. Not as its own. And roasted pork is a celebration that people eats for example for marriages. Not everyday
    It is more common to eat some cheese or dried meat during lunch or as an appetizer, with bread, olives and red wine

  26. trinsmit804

    Hi Frank. I love your channel and really admire your hardcore dedication to your diet and physique. When I was younger I was a lot like you, but now I have fallen into horrible binge eating habits and no exercise. What propels you to stay so dedicated? I would love any advice you can give. Thank you so much. Keep doing a great job!

  27. Giovanni Luigi Fabbri

    As an Italian about 1/4 Sardinian I get hysterical when people say "but look at the blue zones" knowing how much cheese and fat-dripping pork I see people eating when visiting my side of the family from Sardinia

  28. Robert C

    The push for veganism is for the coming government take over of the food supply. Socialists always nationalize the food industries. But in America you cant just waltz in to any ol property and take it by force like in Venezuela for example. Why? Because Americans are armed to the fucking teeth. So what do you do? You convince enough Americans that meat is bad for health, it kills the environment, etc. Now they have all the excuses they need to pass legislation to cripple the meat industry.

  29. hoosier- veganguy

    Kresser used obviously biased, industry-funded (fake) studies. He's a nobody who memorizes the abstracts of industry-related, deceptive studies while Kahn is an actual scientist whose work has been published and peer reviewed. Kresser is in his 40s and looks frail and haggard and looks older than Kahn who is in his 60s.

  30. rainmechanic

    I don't know who called Rogan, but I believe he got several calls after the Podcast with Jordan Peterson and the whole "Carnivore" diet thing that was talked about.. So much so that he was downright hostile to his daughter Michaela when she came on Rogan's Podcast earlier this month. IMO the "Powers that be" are not pleased that this diet is being promoted and that Veganism is getting a lot of negative attention at precisely the same time a lot of very rich and very powerful individuals (Bill Gates) (Jeff Bezos) ect have revealed that they are heavily invested in "Laboratory Grown Meat", imitation vegan meat products that simulate taste, texture, and mouth feel of real meats, ect.. All of the major Global government organizations and NGO's are heavily invested in and promoting the "Eco Friendly Plant Based Diet" and im pretty sure the last thing any of them expected was a sudden "CARNIVORE DIET CRAZE" sweeping the very Millennial demographic they were targeting with the Vegan Celebrity diet craze movement.. And it gets worse.. What happens if people start eating lots of Animal based fats and protein and begin to feel better than they have felt in a very long time? What happens if people with Crohns disease or other inflammatory diseases begin to heal themselves and go into permanent remission? Like is said, a guy like Rogan who literally has MILLIONS OF MILLENNIALs in his audience got a call from some very important, very powerful people in Hollywood and was toput a lid on the whole "Meat Diet" Crazies or he can forget about anymore multimillion dollar Netflix comedy specials coming his way in the future.

  31. Glen Nagy

    Biggest disappointment from Chris Kresser is that he didn't challenge Khan when he said the lower your cholesterol the better. Most people listening the this podcast believing that if their cholesterol is over 200 they should take a statin. There are numerous studies showing that people with higher cholesterol live longer.

  32. Isabelle Zablocki

    French don't have the lowest heart disease in the world. I am French and this is a big problem here in France. Second most common cause of death after cancer. You are out of touch here.

  33. Frank Tufano

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