Dr Ken Berry MD Carnivore Diet Success Story (+ Tips)


– Hello everyone, and
welcome to BioHackers Lab. I am your host Gary Kirwan,
and on today’s episode I have Dr. Ken Berry. Dr. Berry is a board
certified family physician who practices in a
rural town in Tennessee. His practice focuses on
optimization and prevention care in particular for treatment
for obesity and chronic conditions caused by the
standard American diet. His passion is helping to
explain how to use your diet and lifestyle to get the health you want. Ken, thanks so much for
coming on for another episode. – Yeah it’s great to be
back, good to see you Gary. – We were just saying
offline how it’s amazing the journey you’ve had
since I last spoke to you, ’cause you were episode 36 where you got to explain to all the listeners
do doctors lie back then, which was fascinating. And of course you’ve just
become a sensation online now. You got lots of people
wanting to follow you. And it just shows that
you’re sharing information that people want to hear. So I’m so glad to get
you on to share even more information today. – Thanks for having me. – So today we’re going to be talking about the carnivore diet. It’s a hot topic is always,
particularly in January 2019 when people are doing the
world carnivore challenge or carnivore month. You’ve got an interesting story I think. because when I spoke to
you, you were still I think particularly focused
on the ketogenic diet. But I see that you’re
now a carnivore yourself so I think my first question for you then is what’s your journey
been like to transition onto a carnivore diet? – Well it’s been a journey
that started years ago with the primal paleo ancestral diet. That’s kind of where I started. I had benefits with that,
but I didn’t really get all the benefits that I wanted. I kept looking, kept
reading, kept searching and I found the ketogenic way of eating. I thought oh I’ll try
that for a month, right? And I did and I felt even better. So I was ketogenic for
probably three years. And let me tell you I believe
that the carnivore diet is a subset of the
ketogenic way of eating. I don’t think it’s a different diet, I just think it’s a dialing
in of the ketogenic way to even a lower carb way of eating. So I don’t think I switched
to some new fad diet. I think I’ve basically
dialed in my ketogenic diet to where I needed to be
based on my ancestry, based on my gut bacteria. Maybe based on you know
my metabolic health. All those things combined
make me who I am. They also make me need
to diet that I need to be to be as vigorous and as
vibrant physically and mentally as I can. I think that’s the goal of
everybody is to feel the best and look the best, and be the
best that we can possibly be. And if that’s your goal then
I would highly recommend that somewhere on the ketogenic spectrum from vegetarian keto with with just eggs, and cheese, and oysters
all the way to carnivore, somewhere in there is
the proper diet for you. – I think you brought up
an interesting point there about the transition from ketogenic diet to a carnivore diet and
how a carnivore diet is a part of that spectrum. Because that’s also what I’ve noticed. It’s all a part of the low carb spectrum, and you can be ketogenic
on a carnivore diet. – Absolutely. – And I’ve definitely
seen a lot of people who were on a ketogenic lifestyle transition into a carnivore lifestyle and
say wow, it’s just taken it to a whole new level. It’s a very interesting time I think for the keto world to
introduce more protein than maybe what people were eating before. – Yeah about three years
into keto I had been hearing about Dr. Shawn Baker and
I had met Amber O’Hearn at a low carb event. I have been also hearing
about Jordan Peterson and his daughter McKayla. I thought that’s interesting. And then about that same
time I got my 23 and Me results back and I found out that I have a very large percentage
of Nordic Scandinavian northern latitude DNA. And that also I have more
Neanderthal DNA than about 96% of the population. I just watched the YouTube
video by Dr. Michael Eides. And if you guys don’t know
if you need to check him out. He’s got some amazing
information on YouTube that we can actually know
what the Neanderthals ate. We can do nitrogen and
carbon dating on their bones. And we can tell if they
ate mainly a seafood diet, or mainly a meat diet,
or mainly a veggie diet. Neanderthals, from this research look like they were absolutely carnivorous. Only if they were starving would
they incorporate vegetables into their diet. Otherwise they were exclusively carnivore. Fatty red meat, a little bit of seafood. But they ate meat. That’s what Neanderthals ate. So with all of that information I thought, you know what? I’m gonna try one month of carnivore, just fatty red meat carnivore
and see what happens. I had already gotten many
health benefits from being keto. My dandruff had went away, my
chronic joint pain was better. I was stronger, I was faster. I just feel like I held
more muscle naturally even without working out. And I’m not saying was jacked up. I’m just saying I didn’t have pencil arms eating keto, even when
I wasn’t working out. So my keto was kind of a fatty
meat, lots of fatty meat. Little bit of veg, that was my keto. So it was a very small step to just remove that little bit of veg, right? So I started my carnivore
month, and at the end of that month my heartburn,
which I’ve had all of my adult life. And so back on paleo primal
ancestral I had severe heartburn every day of my life. I would have to take
Nexium, Prilosec, Pepcid, something every single day for heartburn. On keto that got about 80% better. Maybe one or two days a
week I’d have to take a Tums or some little something
to block the acid. After that month of carnivore
I had zero heartburn. That’s something that I
have never experienced my entire adult life. Also I had a knee that I had
blown out playing basketball between high school and
college that although much better on keto, still was
tweaky and still would ache. I’d get a little infusion
every now and then. After that month of carnivore
that knee was just as solid as my other knee. I had zero joint issues
after a month of fatty red meat carnivore. I thought, you know what,
I think I’m gonna do this for another month. So I did it for another month. Now I’m on my 10th or 11th
month, I’d have to count it up to know for sure. But at least 10 months of
just fatty meat carnivore. Every now and then I’ll
steal a Brussels sprout off my wife, Nisha’s plate just to see. And I’m like, yeah it’s tasty
but I don’t miss it at all. But 98, 99% carnivore. I still have some coffee. I use salt, pepper, I eat
eggs, I eat seafood obviously. I have a little bit of
quality full-fat cheese. Every now and then I’ll
put a splash of heavy cream in my coffee, but it’s
usually grass-fed butter. That’s the carnivore that
I’ve been on for the last 10 or 11 months. I have no heartburn anymore. If you want back and talked
to my 30 year-old self and said you know, you
don’t have to have heartburn every day, I’d have been
like okay, whatever. Because I had heartburn every day. That was just part of my normal life. I thought that was normal for adults who were doctors and movers and shakers. You’re gonna have some heartburn. But I can’t remember the
last time I had heartburn. I don’t have Tums in my
pocket like I always did. I no longer take the Nexium samples up. I give them to the patients
now and I just don’t need them anymore. So it’s been really amazing. Now I just turned 50 and
when I tell people that they’re like you’re 50, wow. But I’ve decided that,
’cause everybody says of you have sarcopenia on keto or carnivore. There’s no way you can build muscle. So I’m like you know what? I’m 50 now, so I’m supposed
to be an old man first of all. Secondly, I’m eating this
diet that’s supposed to be very bad for your muscles and your skin and all this stuff. You can’t put on any muscle doing this. I’m gonna start lifting weights. I bought a moderately
priced set of weights and a weight bench and
I started working out about a month and a half
ago on my 50th birthday. I’m gonna post pictures
of myself once a month on my Facebook page just
to kind of show everybody. Can you, maybe I can’t. Maybe I can’t put on muscle,
but if that’s the case you’ll be able to see that in the pictures that I post every month
on my Facebook page. When I’m working out I’ve got Danny Vega, he actually flew in to
spend the weekend with me. He’s a huge, keto trainer. He is swole, if you guys
know what that means. I mean, he is jacked up
with muscle and he is keto. He used to be a power
lifter and he’s still a body builder. He’s gonna show me all
the form, the proper form, the techniques. And we’re gonna make
some video out of that. Then every month I’m gonna post. And if I get bonier and
bonier, then so be it. That’s the truth of the matter. But I suspect the
opposite will be the case. I suspect I’ll put on at least a little, if not a lot of muscle
over this next 12 months. – I have a sneaky suspicion
that we’re gonna see a bigger version of you
in a few months’ time. That’s such a great result
then to say that you had even more improvement
in your joint health, and particularly that
daily heartburn situation that you had known
about that had gotten so significantly better with
the ketogenic way of eating, but just is gone now on a carnivore way. With your experience and
with all your medical knowledge too, the way you’re feeling with the carnivore diet right now, is this gonna be a
long-term thing for you? Or are you still just in a
maybe a year, maybe, maybe? – I’m a very open-minded person. I’m always looking, always
reading, always refining and tweaking. So for the foreseeable
future I definitely won’t do anything other than something
on the ketogenic spectrum. There’s no way I’ll deviate
from that unless I see some amazing new research
that I didn’t count on. But my mind’s always
open, I’m always looking. It’s not open enough that
my brain falls out, right? But it’s open enough
that I’m always looking and listening for some new thing like oh, that’s interesting let me check that out. But for the foreseeable
future I don’t see any reason to not be carnivore which
is my particular brand of keto, right? So as time goes on I may try incorporating this particular weird
veg, or this particular weird supplement. I’m always experimenting. But I think the base of my
health is always my diet, right? That’s always the foundation. I think for the foreseeable
future it’s gonna be either carnivore or very fatty
meat-heavy keto for I can’t even imagine not doing one
of those because I feel so amazing. I can look at you right
now and honestly tell you I feel better now at 50 than I felt at 35. That’s ridiculous thing to say. That should never be true. But it is because at 35
my diet was crap, right? Now I was poisoning myself. I was poisoning myself
with sugars, with grains, with vegetable oils. Then I didn’t even know
it back then or I wouldn’t have even have understood
what you were saying but nightshades are very,
very inflammatory for me. I didn’t know that and I
couldn’t know that back then because back when I was eating
the standard American diet if I had removed all nightshades
from my diet for a month I would not have been able
to tell any difference, does that make sense? Because I was so inflamed and
so miserable and so bloated I couldn’t tell any difference. That would be like if an
alcoholic who drinks two fifths of vodka a day, if he removed
the beers from his diet he couldn’t tell any difference. That would mean anything for him, right, because he’s drinking
all his vodka every day. But after keto, my system
was so much cleaner. And definitely after carnivore
if I eat a tomato now I can immediately, and so
the nightshades for those of you who don’t know
are tomatoes; peppers, all peppers, any pepper;
eggplants; potatoes; and tomatillos and a few
other little things that aren’t very common. But for most people it’s
tomatoes, peppers, and eggplants. Many people are sensitive to
them and they have no idea because they’ve never
been at a place of health like I am now where I can try
just a little of something and immediately my body gives me feedback. No, that’s not for you, you
don’t need to be eating that. Now is eating nightshades
better than starving to death? Sure. Is eating wheat better
than starving to death? Sure it is, right? So I always tell people
do the best you can, do the best you can afford. But as soon as you can afford
to do better, then do better. For me that better is
fatty red meat carnivore. – The first time I got you
on too, we had a lot of great discussion about your
book, Do Doctors Lie? Do you think the carnivore
diet is going to be a part of that now that this actually ties into what I want to ask you which
is so pertinent right now is the EAT Lancet Commission. So we’ve got a whole bunch
of doctors now and PH.D’s and researchers saying hey,
you’ve actually got to eat a tiny amount of meat every day. With your experience and
now your objective feelings do you think doctors are lying to us there about avoiding eating meat? – Yeah so the book,
Lies My Doctor Told Me, has actually been picked
up by Victory Belt and there’s gonna be a
second updated edition released in about a month. I self-published the
first time, so it was only on Amazon and Kindle. But this is gonna be
available in all bookstores, so I’m really excited about that. There’s gonna be four extra chapters. And one of the lies is
that red meat causes cancer and that processed meat is bad for you. There’s at least two
chapters dedicated to meat and the lies doctors tell about meat. For those of you who didn’t
heat the first time Gary and I chatted, the reason
I use the word, lies, is because doctors and
nutritionists and dieticians, they have a fiduciary duty
to not only know the truth but to tell the truth to
their patients, right? If your hair dresser tells
you meat causes cancer, you shouldn’t eat it,
you get to choose whether you listen to her or not
because she has no duty to you as a health professional. But I took an oath to do no harm. So I have a license and
I have a fiduciary, legal responsibility to my patients
to not only tell them what I think is best for
them, but to know what’s best for them. So many doctors after
they get into practice, they get lazy. So they’re happy to just
listen to the expert consensus which is what 99% of nutrition
findings or guidelines are based on. They’re not based on
any meaningful research. They’re just based on epidemiology. Then you get a bunch of the
oldest doctors with gray hair in the room from Harvard and Yale, and they decide what they
think this research means. So you’re taking faulty,
half-ass done research then you’re talking all
these experts who all had their preconceived
notions which is usually that vegetables are better than meat. That’s on average what their consensus is. Then they issues these statements tell you this is what you should eat. But the reality is it is based
on no meaningful research and they all have biases, right? Whether it’s a financial
bias, some interest in some plant source nutrition
company or they just believe in their heart of hearts
that you shouldn’t kill and eat animals. That biases leeches into
the expert consensus. That’s exactly what the
EAT Lancet thing is. They actually say that verbatim. This is an expert consensus
of what human beings should eat. If you just read the
introductory paragraphs they say right up front
this is an expert consensus. I tell you, any time you
see that level of evidence as the only level of evidence mentioned, that means they have no evidence. That’s what that means in
science speak and doctor speak is the best we can do
is get all the experts and we get to pick and
choose the experts, right? So they didn’t ask me or Dr.
Shawn Baker to attend that. So there was no carnivore perspective. There was no keto perspective
in that room of experts. So that’s how you get
these kind of guidelines. These guidelines are based
on no randomized trials, they’re based on no controlled trials. It’s based exclusively on
epidemiological research where they would basically,
they would go to Gary’s house and they would give him a
questionnaire with anywhere from 40 to 100 questions. The questions would be
like how many cups of ribs have you eaten in the last year? That’s literally one of the questions. How many pounds of broccoli
have you eaten in the last– you’re like I don’t know. So they give you these
multiple choice things to pick from and you’re like C, I don’t know. So then they crunch all
the, and you see right off the bat that the data
is flawed from the get go. Then they crunch all this
flawed data which usually magnifies errors when you crunch it. Then you get their opinion of that data. So anybody with any
science background can see how removed from the
actual scientific process this crap is. That EAT Lancet has
flooded the airwaves with starting on the 17th of January. – I can see this
discussion happening a lot through 2019 now. This hey there’s a whole body
saying minimize your protein intake and yet we’ve got
all these meat heal stories coming out. And people like yourself
going no, I need to eat a lot of meat per day. There’s no way I’m going to
be following this guideline. It’s not gonna suit my body at all. – Right, right and so you
can see the average guy walking the street, what recourse has he? He has none. All he can do is go like, well
it was on the evening news. It’s on CNN.com, it’s on
WebMD, so it must be true. So he starts to try to eat
that way and he gets sicker and sicker and sicker. Then you can also put
yourself in the shoes of the average doctor who’s
got all these bills to pay. He’s got his family who wants his time. He’s got this medical
practice that he may not even be as happy with as he once was. Is he gonna get down into
the research and actually read all of these studies? No, he’s just gonna go
with what the experts say. So then he’ll start to repeat
this lie to his patients. He doesn’t know better, but
it’s his job to know better. So that’s what makes him
culpable, makes him guilty of malpractice, in my opinion. But his patients, this is the
doctor they’ve looked up to for 10, 20, 30 years. They’re not gonna question him. So everybody’s gonna start
trying to eat this very unnatural, synthetic diet. I was just talking to Dr. Shawn Baker. You may know he’s very big
in the carnivore community. He and I can envision a time. You know you can buy dog food
in a 50-pound bag, right? And you can buy cat
food in a 20-pound bag. We envision a day in the very near future when you can buy human
kibble in a 50-pound bag. That’s literally you will
eat that and then drink some kind of soft drink or something. All of the big food and
big farming manufacturers will have a profit cut
out of that 50-pound bag of human kibble, and then you will drink
Coca-Cola or something. You know the big soft drink
corporations are making their billions. And we’ll be so sick from
eating this crap we’ll have to spend billions and
keep big pharma in business. You see how everybody’s got
a vested interest in EAT Lancet going forward and
becoming the standard of care. All the big dogs are in this. There was a graphic that was
circulating on social media of all the big corporations
who were behind EAT Lancet. Guess who it was? Archer Daniel Midland,
Cargill, all the big farming, big food, Coca-Cola,
Pepsi Cola, all these guys they’re like hell yeah
I’m on board because you can make anything. You can make any food product
out of processed grain, vegetable oils, and sugar. Anything from pizza crust,
to a cookie, to a tortilla. You can make all that stuff
out of those three ingredients and they can essentially
grow those things for free because of the government
subsidy they get to grow it. So their profit margin is almost infinite. Of course they’re gonna back this. – I’m just imagining I would
completely agree with you. Human kibble, I could so see that. Just massive bags of cereal. Just comes pre-portioned
where you just add your low fat milk to it just
to enhance the flavor. I think hopefully that might
get some people thinking okay, so it’s been in the news
for this EAT Lancet. Maybe I don’t have to follow that. I’ll prefer to follow
Dr. Berry’s advice here and I’ll keep eating my meat. What would some of your
tips be for someone who is in a ketogenic state or
someone who wants to try the carnivore? I’ve seen the question pop up going, and it was kind of that question
you did with yourself too. Should I just try this
for a couple of weeks? Maybe 30 days and then
I’ll go back to my regular way of eating? The question I have for
you there is do you think someone could do like a
cyclical carnivore diet where I know some people
will say no, you’ve gotta be strict and you’ve gotta stay on this for 12 months straight. But I’m already seeing that
I think you’re gonna get some people who say hey,
I wanna be carnivore once a quarter or like three or four times in a year, so I’m gonna do
a cyclical version of it. Do you think there might
be some sort of benefit? – I think that’s perfectly rational. When I talk to my patients
they come to me and say I heard about this carnivore thing. Do you think I should try it? My answer is yes, try it for one month. Try it for 30 days because
there’s zero research anywhere in the world
that eating fatty red meat for just one month is gonna
cause any long-term damage. Nobody can even make that argument. That’s a silly argument if
someone tries to make that. It’s not gonna hurt you
for one month, right? Try it and see how you feel. If you don’t feel your
best then go back to keto, go back to paleo, go back to primal. But try it for a month. I think there will be many
people who will do carnivore for months then they’ll come back off it and they’ll do a veggie
heavy keto for a month, or they’ll do it for six months. I could see almost an
infinite number of variations of that coming. But I think any variation of
that is 1,000 times healthier than the human kibble that
we’re gonna be told to eat. – Yeah absolutely, so I
have patients who do very, very well on a vegetable heavy keto. They eat lots of green
vegetables, they eat eggs, they eat full-fat cheese,
they eat some sardines, and they eat some fish,
and they eat some butter and that’s their keto. But they mainly green veg,
and I think that’s fine for some people. Other people have to
move much further towards the red meat spectrum
and some people do best on almost zero carb which is carnivore. – I was watching one of
your Facebook Live videos just before this call to
catch up on some of the info that you’ve been sharing. Your wife, Nisha is it? Did she start a carnivore this month, because we’re speaking January 29th, in the carnivore challenge? – She’s not exclusively carnivore, but she’s much more carnivore
than she ever imagined. We’ve been together for
years and for a long time she was paleo, very veggie heavy. She’s half Puerto Rican, so
she’s got a lot of Spanish and equatorial DNA. So I assumed that she would also do better on a veggie heavy keto just because of her ancestral background, right? But as we’ve done this she
has Hasimoto’s thyroiditis and hypothyroidism. We never imagined that
she’d be able to eat a fatty meat keto or to fast. We just assumed that she would
never be able to do that. But as we’ve done this
together she’s watched me and it’s easy. If I’m eating a big rib
eye she’s like give me some of your rib eye. And sometimes I do, sometimes I don’t. It depends on how hungry I am. But then the more she’s done
this the more she’s felt like you know I think I feel better
eating mostly carnivore. So I would say she’s
probably 85, 90% carnivore for the last couple of months. When you eat that much fatty
meat you’re just not hungry. So she’s implemented more
fasting into her ketogenic way than she ever imagined she’d be able to. She’s tried to fast before
and with Hashimoto’s a lot of people say I just
can’t fast, I can’t do it. And she felt like she could not. But now lately the other day
she fasted for over 24 hours. She said you know I feel
like I’ve taken one of the limitless pills. Like she had her stuff
out, she was brainstorming and she was coming up with
video ideas because she has her own YouTube channel and Facebook. She does fashion and diet and nutrition and other stuff as well. She just said my brain won’t stop. I keep having new ideas. She was like 20 hours into
this fast and her brain was on fire. She said, I haven’t been this
productive like I’ve been more in one day than I
do in a week sometimes. I think it’s the fatty meat. It just lets you fast for longer periods. You’re not hungry, you’re not suffering, you’re not weak, you’re not tired. You feel great because your
body’s getting everything that it needs from either
the full fatty meat diet or lots of fatty meat
and a little bit of veg. – I think that’s a great point
that you brought up, too. Because that ties into a
little bit when I spoke with Kelly Hogan. A lot of ladies have done
the ketogenic diet maybe for weight loss or in this
case for metabolic reasons. I think a big problem is
not eating enough protein. But it sounds like why
not just give it a try and see what happens? Certainly it could be very life changing. – Right exactly. So many people come to
keto and they still have the old dieting paradigms
in their head like ooh, I can only eat so many calories. Or I should eat very small
portions because I’m trying to lose weight. The whole point behind the
ketogenic way of eating is that you’re hacking your
hormones, your biohacking with this. That’s one way to think about it. The other way is to think
I’m just eating the diet that human beings are meant to eat. And therefore, all my
hormones are going to go to the right place. So my leptin and my
ghrelin hormones are not gonna be out of sync. I’m not gonna be hungry
all the time after eating every two hours. Keto fixes that, but I think
carnivore for most people goes even a step further. You’re eating so much
fat and so much protein, you’re satiated. You’re full and you actually understand what being full means,
’cause many people don’t know what that means. And then you’re able to fast
for longer periods of time effortlessly because you’re not hungry. – I think Nisha said a nice version again. I’ve talked about the
cyclical carnivore version. But it’s another version
I can see happening is the modified version,
what she named it. Or there is a person out there, Don, who’s called it the hyper-carnivore. I think again that’s a diet
where at least 80% of your diet is animal protein. – Right, and that’s what
Nisha’s been following easily 80% carnivore. I think you’ll see all
kinds of variations of that becoming popular because
depending on where you’re from in the world, I think
different variations of that will suit you better. Or I think there’s a huge social component because for a lot of people
it sounds very weird, very unhealthy. To say don’t eat anything
green, they’re like what? Don’t eat, what? That just sounds so wrong
and I think it takes people a few months to get used
to keto and to realize how good they feel when
they had this huge rib eye and just a few Brussels
sprouts, or just a little bit of asparagus. They’re like I don’t need
to stuff myself with seven to 10 cups of vegetables
every day to feel healthy. I can feel great and not have to do that. – I think that’s a great
point is that they’ll be some people who think I
do feel so much better when I eat more protein,
but I still like my veg, or I still want to have some veg. And in this case don’t feel
guilty, you can have some. – If your cheat is that you
ate some Brussels sprouts, I still win, don’t I? It’s like boom, home run. I love that, that’s awesome. I was talking to somebody earlier, and her cheat over Christmas
is she ate two huge servings of Brussels
sprouts, that was her cheat. I’m like that’s amazing. Do you understand what you just said? You cheated with Brussels
sprouts, that’s amazing, I love that because five
years ago your cheat would have been with half of
a coconut cake or something. Now you’re cheating with Brussels sprouts. So that makes me very happy. I feel like we’re making some kind of mark on the social consciousness
if that’s your cheat. – You’ve brought it up a couple of times about the ancestral component to this. Do you think then potentially
there is going to be value, I don’t know, currently
or maybe in the future about people looking at
their DNA to say maybe I am more predisposed,
then I should be eating a more protein heavy based
diet, more protein based. – Yeah, I think the two wildcards in this are the gut microbiome and our DNA. I don’t know how important
each is going to be. If you’d have asked me five
years ago I would have said ancestry probably doesn’t
pay much of a part. But your gut bacteria are huge. Now if you ask me that
same question I would say I don’t know if gut bacteria
really matters much at all, but your ancestry probably
matters quite a bit. Ask me five years, I don’t
know, but the foundation of all of it is your diet. Nothing else matters if you’re not eating on some spectrum of the ketogenic diet, whether it’s vegetarian keto or carnivore. Somewhere in there I
fully believe currently is the proper human diet for everybody. On that spectrum somewhere
is where you fall. That may change over time. Kind of like Nisha, kind of
migrating from a veg heavy keto to a more meat heavy keto,
and now a hyper carnivore. So I think if you’re
eating keto I don’t think you have to worry about it. I don’t think you have to
rush because first of all you’re doing 1,000 times
better than you were doing five years ago. So it gives you more time and
your body’s so less inflamed. Your insulin level is so
much closer to a normal level most of the day every day
that you’ve got time to tinker and play, and experiment,
and say I want to try to eliminate the nightshades. I’m gonna eliminate nuts from my keto. I’m gonna eliminate all dairy for a month. You can play all these
games and experiment and you’ll get immediate
feedback from your body because your body can
now actually talk to you. You’re not like the
alcoholic that drank a liter of vodka every day. He said I’m gonna stop beer
and see if that makes me feel better. That’s not gonna help him. But now that you’re keto or carnivore you can add back in
something and immediately your body will give you feedback. That’s good and I didn’t have a reaction. Or that’s bad and I bloated
and my eczema came back, my heartburn came back. I don’t need to eat that at all. – Now having been so
heavy in the meat world for a period of time, what’s
your view on the quality of meat, that question that comes up? – I’ve got a YouTube video about that and I’ve got a chapter
in Lies My Doctor Told Me about that. But I’ll tell you I
think that meat quality matters far less than
just that fact that you’re eating a lot of meat. I’ve got a video about we hear about the nitrate-free nitrates, or
nitrates do they cause cancer, are they bad? People are kind of
stunned when they find out that celery has a hundreds
of times more nitrates than bacon. And they’re like wait, no what? Yeah and so in the U.S.,
the federal government is a very odd creature. If you’re a big enough
corporation and you have enough money and enough
lobbyists you can get very strange laws passed
in the United States. So if you don’t put any
chemically-made nitrates in your bacon you use
nitrates that you get from celery, you can
call that nitrate free. Legally you can put that
on your label, nitrate-free even though that bacon very
probably has more nitrates than just regular bacon. That is an absolute truth
in the United States. I don’t know if it’s
that way in other parts of Europe and the world. But here you can put a
big sticker that says nitrate-free because you got the nitrates from a natural source which
is beet greens or celery. But it’s the same exact chemical molecule. A nitrate is a nitrate,
there’s no difference regardless where you get it from. When I tell people that
their nitrate-free bacon probably has more nitrates
than the regular bacon and costs twice as much
they’re furious understandably. But then also I tell
them if you’re worried, truly worried about
nitrates you need to stop eating celery for sure
and many other greens because they have way
more nitrates than bacon. Most people, that’s kind
of the wake up call, the light bulb like what? Then they start looking
into this and they find that could be absolutely true. There’s no doubt about that. – Another question I had for
you then is how much meat should someone eat in a day? Because they might start with this and go oh, I’ve only got x-amount of budget. Do I have to eat two pounds of meat a day? Or do I just eat, then
I’m not hungry any more. What would your advice be for them? – Great question. If meat quality doesn’t matter,
how much does it matter? From my reading and my
personal experience, I think that grass-fed, grass
finished, panda massaged beef that costs $22 a pound is
maybe one percent better for you than just the cheapest ground beef you can buy at the market. So with that being said,
carnivore is not nearly as expensive if you understand
that yeah, you want to buy the best quality meat you can afford. But you don’t need $25 a
pound meat to eat carnivore. You can eat eggs, you can
eat tons of ground beef. So usually the fattier the ground beef, the cheaper it is, right? So you actually want
the fattier ground beef. You don’t want super
lean, you want the fat because it helps you stay in ketosis and it helps you stay full. Usually the fattier cuts of
meat are actually cheaper. That’s the cuts you
want to go after anyway. A lot of times just like the scrap cuts they would sell that you
would put in your stew or your soup, that’s
perfect for carnivore. So you can be eating all
this cheap meat and making your health noticeably better. You don’t have to spend a
fortune to be a carnivore. – I think you live in the
perfect part of the world don’t you, for getting access to meats. – I do, yeah I live in the deep southern United States. There are big farms all around us. It’s normal for an older
neighbor lady to have 10 chickens in the backyard. So we can get absolutely
organic-pastured eggs. We can get all that stuff,
we have access to it. But what I predict is going to happen with the EAT Lancet guidelines
depending on how hard they try to implement them
and make them regulation or law and create taxes to tax meat. People are just gonna
start having chickens in the backyard again. They’re gonna have if they have an acre they’re gonna have a pig running around or they’re gonna have
a cow running around. I predict there will be local
butchers that pop up again, or local meat processors that you’ll grow your own, eat your own eggs. Or you’ll have your cow that you had. One cow here, you have
the local guy butcher it, you put it in the freezer,
and then you’ve got your meat. The federal government can
go to heck, so to speak. I think if the regulations
get very onerous you’ll see that local
economy, and I’m all for that, I love buying local and
encouraging local things like that. So I think you’ll see a
huge resurgence of everybody basically growing their own protein, growing their own fat again if the taxes get too onerous at the grocery store. – We’re coming close to our time here, but I want to ask you a
question I know is definitely gonna come up. That’s gonna be okay Dr. Berry,
how are your bloods looking? I don’t know if you’ve
even gone down that route. – I try to be completely
transparent with what I’m doing, because they would love
to say oh Berry’s lying. He doesn’t really eat that way. Or he’s probably diabetic
because he eats that way. So every six months I
draw a huge panel of labs, of bloods, and I post
them on my Facebook page. Then also since I’ve started working out I’m gonna take pictures once
a month of me just wearing my shorts from three different angles. I’m gonna post that on my
Facebook page every month so there can be no doubt. If the carnivore diet is giving me scurvy and causing my muscles to
go away, you’ll be able to see that in my pictures. If it’s causing me to become a diabetic and causing all my
inflammatory markers to go up you’ll be able to see
that in my blood work that I post on my Facebook
page every six months. If I’m wrong you’ll be able
to see it in black and white on my Facebook page. And look at this picture
from January versus June. He obviously has scurvy, look
his teeth are falling out. Or if the opposite is true
you’ll be able to see that progression as well. No research has ever
been done on any of this either by this side of the
argument or the other side of the argument. Nobody knows. But all I can go is I
can take the research and make what I make from that. Then take the common
sense of if you feed a dog a good diet then he’s a very
healthy-looking active dog with a shiny coat. Or if you feed him a diet
that’s not good for him, his hair starts falling
out, he gets skin sores, he gets diabetic, he gets
fat, he lays around and sleeps all the time. That’s common sense, right? So if you take that dog to
the vet the first question the veterinarian’s gonna
ask you is what have you been feeding this dog? I think that same common
sense applies to human beings. So if you see people
like me and Shawn Baker and Amberil Hearn, and Makala
Peterson looking and feeling better, and better, and better
that must mean something. So I think all of these
N equals one experiments now that we have social
media to share with them, with everybody, more people
are gonna jump on board and start recording how
they look and how they feel and what their bloods were. After a certain amount
of time people say oh, that’s just a case study. That’s weak evidence and that’s true. But if you have 1,000
case studies that showed the exact same thing that
carried more scientific weight. When you have 50,000
case studies that show the same exact trend
you’ve gotta give that scientific merit. You’ve gotta start doing
some control studies to see what the heck’s going on there because you can’t call
that just a case study where N equals one after
you’ve got 50,000 people who have posted their bloods
and posted their before and after pictures. If you’re a rational human
being you can no longer ignore that evidence. – I agree with you. This whole show is about N
equals one and I’m for that. You’re not worried about
getting type two diabetes it sounds like. – My last A1C was 5.3 or 5.2. My triglycerides were beautiful. My HDL cholesterol was beautiful. All my inflammatory markers were perfect. I don’t have any fear
that I’m damaging my body. Now my last total cholesterol was 350, and my last LDL cholesterol was 250. If that freaks any of
you guys listening out, then go to my YouTube
channel and watch a video by Dr. David Diamond. He’s a PH.D researcher here in the States. He breaks down why you, not
only should you not care if your total cholesterol’s
high, you should be happy and proud if your total cholesterol’s high because that’s very
protective against dementia and many other diseases that
people get as they get older. – Ken, this is the time
when I normally ask if people want to contact
you or keep in touch with all this great information
that you’re sharing, where do you want people to go? – If you’ll just search
Dr. Ken Berry on YouTube or Facebook, or Instagram
I think you’ll find me pretty quickly. That’s where I do the bulk of my work. I’m also on Twitter
and LinkedIn, and Vero, and every other social media. But I spend the bulk
of my time on YouTube. I try to make at least
two videos every week. Then my wife and I, Nisha,
we’re live on my Facebook page every Sunday night at seven p.m. We’ll hash out some new topic,
and then we’ll take tons of questions from the
people who have joined us on the Facebook Live. If you want to ask me a
question that’s the perfect way to do it. – Perfect, and I’m gonna
link to all of that in the show notes. But again, fantastic episode. Thanks so much for all
your Tennessee truth bombs. I do love them. I just want to find out, are
you going to the Carnivore Conference by any chance,
in Boulder, Colorado? – I’ll be there as an attendee. I’m not speaking this year. I’ll also be at the
low-carb event that starts the day after that in Colorado as well. – Because this episode’s
gonna go live before that. So I look forward to meeting you in person because I’m going to be there myself. – Oh you’ll be there, oh excellent. I can’t wait to see you in person. – Perfect, again thank you
so much Ken, for your time. – My pleasure brother,
I’ll see you next time.

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Reader Comments

  1. Doris Gerwitz

    Biohackers Lab I am very grateful for you posting these carnivore diet videos… I am now trying it on my 18 year old son with severe autism… and for myself and cleanse my body… I would have never endeavored it without your videos… Hopefully someday I can post a success video ourselves… Thank you 🙂

  2. Neil Whyte

    Great. Another guineau pig beginner who is trialling his belief system of eating. I would rather listen to experts and real science..and people who live the longest and healthiest on planet Earth…they aren't Carnivore diet eaters. Lets see how you are in 20 -30 years. Until then, goodbye.

  3. mike galway

    An interesting idea regarding neanderthal DNA because just as an observation iv had on accounts of people on instagram or facebook of people saying they have had benefits from carnivore/ keto diet are white people of northern European origin, of which have been found to have trace dna of neanderthals. Interestingly enough, black people have been found to not have any neanderthal dna at all.

  4. mike galway

    An interesting idea regarding neanderthal DNA because just as an observation iv had on accounts of people on instagram or facebook of people saying they have had benefits from carnivore/ keto diet are white people of northern European origin, of which have been found to have trace dna of neanderthals. Interestingly enough, black people have been found to not have any neanderthal dna at all. i havent seen a black person on these platforms account the diet

  5. keith cunningham

    The Neanderthals died out because of global cooling, their food sources dried up. The last Neanderthals were cannibalistic. They ate meat. I have some Neanderthal dna too. I get very fat on carbohydrates. More bacon the better.

  6. John Snow

    Life expectancy of carnivorous populations like the Inuit an Masai: below 60. Life expectancy of blue zones with very little meat: the longest on the planet.

  7. tallis mortallic

    I was 360lbs and I had so much joint pain i could barely handle walking up the stairs. I was 35 but I felt like an old man. Within a week of going on keto i could run up stairs like when i was a teenager and I had lost 10 lbs. It's been 9 months and today I weighed In at under 300. (299.3). Also I used to have daily migraines and back pain but after that first week of keto I stopped waking up with headaches and I dont remember having back pain since. I try to tell people who don't eat keto how much improvement it is and they dont believe me.
    They think I'm just obsessed with keto😂. I guess you just dont know until you know…

  8. Amy Gambler

    Been eating Keto since June 2018. Lost about 40 lbs up to November. Since then I’ve gained/lost the same freaking 4 lbs. Have been listening to you talk about the carnivore diet but was scared to try it. So I jumped in 3 days ago. Apparently my body loves it because I’ve lost 3 lbs already. I too have a higher % of Neanderthal in addition to French/English from my 23andme testing. All very interesting. Thx for all the good info!

  9. Adrian At And T

    There's some guy on y tube named Frank that constantly saying dont eat anything but grass fed be ause of omega 6, not even any oils? Pl answer.

  10. Adrian At And T

    Is it true organic pasteurized eggs in the super market are just a marketing trick and y better off with eggs with flaxseed and omega 6, butvshould not have many eggs because of that according to this jerk frank?

  11. Denis Prieur

    dr Berry, more and more people from quebec, canada are curious about this carnivore diet( mainly cause of me lol!), i think you should consider to sell your book lies my doctor told me, translated in french!!! It would be a best seller…no joke!!!! Gonna take another e-visit with you pretty soon!

  12. Lisa Heal yourself

    Question. I did carnivore for 30 days and it didn’t help any illness symptoms and now I’m nervous and second guessing. Because where do you get potassium, vitamin e, Vitamin B1, and calcium. If your symptoms aren’t healing is it better to round out duet to get all the nutrients you need. I really would love thoughts on this.

  13. Pam Craig

    I have struggled to stay low carb and fast. In addition when I do manage to stay low carb I may lose weight but I still have horrible skin issues and feel sluggish. Listening to some of these interviews I am thinking I need to give carnivore a serious try. No more almond milk or cauliflower pizza dough for awhile.

  14. JD1459

    Dr. Berry I started the Keto diet this month to lose some weight to help with my blood pressure. My wife and I through away our sugar, oatmeal, flour, gave away our oranges, dates, figs, but we kept our Breyers ice cream since we wouldn't be buying it anymore. One night my wife got a bowl of the ice cream, I had been checking my blood pressure several times that evening, so then I got a bowl of the ice cream and soon as I ate it I felt my blood pressure going up. I checked it and it had went up 20 points on the bottom & top number. From that point on no more carbs or cheating on the Keto diet. The last three days I have transition to the carnivore diet, except I add 1 item to each meal, a fresh glove of garlic. The fresh garlic cloves with grass feed beef, salmon, pork, and chicken seams perfect for me on the carnivore diet.

  15. Marina Jacobs

    Is there anywhere in the responses from Dr. Berry that he stopped eating vegetables because of oxalates? Don't know what to believe anymore. Hearing that vegetables can be bad for you now. So now many going to meat only.

  16. Bram

    Guys an only meat-diet might seriously fuck up your health. My body right now is very acidic, there is a complete lack of vitamines in my body right now and the good bacterias in my gut have drastically decreased. And this was just after three weeks of keto-carnivore. Please watch out and don't do it unless you have a very good reason for it and you can make sure you have regular health checkups (preferably alternative, such as ortho-molecular therapy). Watch out, it's extremely dangerous and I am now paying for my naivety and stupidity of trying this diet. I'm not sayin it bad for everyone, but there is a fair chance that it WILL ruin your health. Thanks for reading.

  17. L F

    So, I have to say that I don't agree with Dr. Berry on meat quality. The omega composition of grass grazing animals is very different that grain fed, feedlot ones. Also, feedlot animals are full of antibiotic and other residues, that grass fed, grass finished are not, to my knowledge. I still prefer to buy the best quality I can afford from farmers who care about their cattle. If that means I eat a bit less, so be it. 🙂

  18. Nick Gray

    I first started on Keto to help with insulin sensitivity and carb crashing. It worked i stayed with it for 3 weeks and lost 6 lbs which wasn’t even the goal anyway. I just wanted energy back st age 30. I learned Through Dr. Berry the Carnivore diet and now I’m 2 weeks in and I have to say I feel great and I lost 4 more lbs and now I’m 199lbs this morning. Weight loss is out of control so I need to figure out how to not go under 190 because I’m 6’2. So I started back st the gym and it’s been a while so I’m week but I do need to say. I worked out fasted of 14 hours maybe more and I never felt tired or shaky like I used to. I see a good future to my medical career. Heartburn is gone 💯 and I was on a PPI. Hell I don’t even need the ADD medication anymore as my mood is a lot more stable and motivation has came back.

  19. Diego alberto Mejia

    Ken, Did you try ACV after wake up, the combination of IF, keto diet resolve my gastritis.-
    I will try the carnivore diet, where I can get more information about the meat to eat. Thanks

  20. Fast Keto Prime

    I cannot eat liver and want to try carnivore but not comfortable eating just muscle meat.

    Unless someone can give me verifiable info.

    I want to get EVERYTHING I need with the very least amount of variation. So we I'm busy I can say. Okay….eggs….ect …..whatever. Eat it and get on with my life. I got more stuff to do than sitting around eating all day

  21. Marcel

    Still, even as a paleo/keto fan myself, i keep wondering if this is the way of life. The first of human spiecies, did they find enough meat to live off ? We don't know that for 100 % . There is evidence that they lived close to the sea while we assumed that most lived all over the planet . Catching real living animals on regular base could have been hard.A lot have changed and every one or two years there comes a new Dr of specialst that tells you he/she found the egg of columbus, i love reading and hearing about it but i still keep listening to my feeling and i keep a clear head about it. Never the less,,,,we will never be able to collect all data we needed to see what the first humans diet was. Plant based foods would be logical for me 2. Thx for the vid.

  22. Sa Te

    This is easy. What about those who are not obese, never been on SAD, not old, but chronically ill with "but you look good" or invisible conditions? Does Dr. Ken have answers? I bet not! So there they go from doctor to doctor suffering immensely with zero help.

  23. Holly M

    I am keto but scared to try carnivore…scared I will get bored with just meats…but I will try to cut back on veggies…I already eat meat alot so I will try to get away from Vegetables more and more. I do notice bloat when I eat broccoli or spinach…but giving up avocado😢

  24. Darth Palpatine

    My DNA is 96 percent Italian specifically in the region of Sicily and keto works great for me anyone else Mediterranean and do keto what's your experience?

  25. Nolite des bastardes Carborundorum

    After 3 years keto I know somethings still not quite right. I go carnivore today. Even if its cyclical. Ken Berry has not been wrong for me so far.

  26. Steven Arcand

    About heartburn…keto / paleo / no diet at all….apple cider vinegar would have done the trick. Never heartburn in 2 years and I used to sleep with pepto bismol and tums beside my bed. Even when I was NOT keto and just eating like everyone else, just Apple cider vinegar cured it.

  27. KM Krieger

    One question I would like answered is that my introduction to keto is particularly tough because I crave meat and I have some reasons to make me crave meat and that was an undiagnosed probably for decades anemia which became critically low over a year ago hemoglobin 5 requiring transfusion, needless to say I much prefer a carnivore diet to transfusion and given the fact that my body has typically told me what I crave is what I need I believe it!!! However and the keto diet which I really struggled with, you are told that protein should be treated like a carbohydrate because it triggers insulin so if all I'm eating is insulin triggering substance how do I control insulin resistance which I know I have, Mega question?????

  28. POWER & WILL

    There is not many of us. Souls are addicted to sugar. Even keto goers struggle with carbs. I started on keto and switched. Carnivore is not keto. We are in ketosis. Are diet is much different. We are not eating the vegetables like them. Like dr berg says 8 cups of green

  29. lwf51

    If a person has had several heart attacks (one being in April 2019) due to arterial blockages, is there any problem with going onto a carnivore diet? Cardiologists (except Dr Esselstyn who bans meat, fish, all oils, all nuts, all dairy) are telling me I can eat anything except dairy and any fats. I'm perplexed! I'd love to go onto the carnivore diet as I "hear" what the proponents of a meat diet are saying. Any ideas folks?

  30. Maryj

    But Dr. Barry the metabolism of synthetic nitrate and plant born nitrates is different. Synthetic nitrates produce fantastic migraines whereas plant born…don’t have them at all.

  31. Marisa Wiggins

    I've had the same exact type of success with my ibs on carnivore, that you've had with your heartburn Dr Berry, and I was diagnosed at 13.

  32. Amy DeLeon

    The general consensus hundreds of years ago was that the world was flat … That's what the "experts" wanted everyone to believe 😳

  33. DewNot BDeceived

    Amazing Stuff about taking the dog to the vet! Most Doctor's never really talk about what you are eating. …and many of them don't look very healthy… And they only know what they were taught. They are mostly taught about taking pills…

  34. Nikki Carver

    Hey love your info it’s great! I do have a question I’m doing carnivore and I do not like liver is there a supplement for that ? Can I get my vitamin C in another direction beside liver ???

  35. Parkin Play

    lol Kellogs already came out with that the little cereal boxes you can open from the front! Ooh good to know about the meat quality; I was confused about that I guess that's a sales gimmick to sell more expensive meat.

  36. Celeste -

    “They didn’t ask me to attend, so you have NO Carnivore perspective….” that philosophy/attitude that defines current “respected” organizations like the AMA, & the FDA is part of the massive corruption that continues to profit off of the lies that they perpetuate and encourage. After all, many elements of our society would be affected and have to drastically change if these things were allowed to be discussed.

  37. SeaWolf

    HAHA.. I have the same blood type and DNA family history! I get mad if I can't get enough protein. Also the first question I ask when being invited to dinner: "What kind of meat are they serving??"

  38. Michael Campion

    I'm on day 4 Carnivore Diet. Loving it. Flatter tummy and already waking up with better mood/energy. No real cravings, though I might miss having an odd beer or two every now and then.

  39. Angel Shining

    I want to get his book…..sick of Drs throwing pills at pts and not teaching them diet is the key. I love Dr Fung too.My heart burn all went away too with keto/ carnivore. Knee joints feeling so much better and more energy.

  40. heiner lauter

    i have still lots of fat at waist(100 cm) and belly, my face, arms . legs look superslim so many people say stop loosing weight (lost 55 pounds), you look like a skelleton. I m now 82 kilo with height 194 cm.

    What to do now, loose more weight or give up?

  41. Joseph Moore

    I’m educating myself on carnivore diet. Why is it important for us to eat what the Neanderthals ate 1,000,000 years ago in today’s society? Also, didn’t Neanderthals have very short life spans? Thanks.

  42. What Big Eyes

    I wonder how the old thing out there about eating according to your blood type comes into play in how we should eat. I know I do better on the red meat.

  43. Sarah Love

    When I eat anything with sugar in it, I get anxiety like you would not believe! I really have to watch the carbs. Thinking about going totally carnivore. Great video!

  44. Laura E

    I’ve been on Carnivore for 6 weeks and feel so much better. Evidently my inflammation caused me to lose my sense of smell. All of a sudden I can smell people when I’m out in a public place. It’s not a pleasant experience! Haha.

  45. Mia dubb

    Yes! Dr Berry I'm one of those people who DON'T know what it means to be full unless I over bloat myself… 3rd day out carnivore complete( I added 2 handful pecans and a cheese stick but I'll get back right tomorrow… should've just ate more bacon!

  46. Leila Adams

    Started carnivore 3 weeks ago and lost 12 lbs. Sure it’s just water weight but I’ll take it. Couldn’t get the scale moving for 4 months before carnivore.

  47. ALAELDIN ABDALLA

    My wife follows your advice and lives only on eating meat and eggs only, but I am afraid to be exposed to the disease to lose her body many vitamins found in vegetables, fruits, legumes and even bread and rice, you should advise your followers instead of exposing them to diseases

  48. David Ahart

    Dr Berry, I'm very confused, I've heard you talk about the Keto Diet and the Carnivore Diet. I've been trying to eat less sugar based items and doing pretty good, but now I hear you talking about carnivore diet and I don't know where to turn now, Please Help

  49. spiderpond

    Really? Just basic fatty meats? I try to eat organ meats nearly every night by grinding the meat and adding every spice, herb, salt and lemon to slow cook with. But you're telling me I can just eat rumps, sirloin and other muscle meats? What about vitamin and mineral content? I would have thought the carnivore diet would have only been subject to organ meats

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